Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast

BTE 5.11 Tried and True Programming vs. Something New: Part 2 with Tyler Hensley and Katelyn Adams

• Christ In Youth • Season 5 • Episode 11

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When the Spirit nudges your ministry to change, do you add another program—or clear the calendar and listen? We sit down with student pastor Tyler Hensley from Forum Christian Church to unpack a bold move: cutting Sunday class so students worship with the whole church and step into meaningful serving roles. It wasn’t easy, especially after COVID, but the long-term fruit is clear—deeper intergenerational ties, a thriving midweek, and students who own their faith by leading in kids, middle school, worship, and tech.

We also open the hood on CIY’s Follow Through app, a free tool that helps churches guide students from event decisions to everyday discipleship. Tyler explains how students choose pathways like vocational ministry or Kingdom Worker, connect with mentors, and work through content while church admins track progress in a simple dashboard. If you’ve been looking for a smarter way to support commitments made at MOVE or MIX, this is your on-ramp to consistent mentoring, parent resourcing, and better follow-up.

What stands out most is the renewed hunger for Scripture. Instead of quick topical series, Tyler’s students asked for the whole story—so they’re studying Revelation on Sundays and spending sixteen weeks in Exodus on Wednesdays. We talk practical planning for summer, balancing leader and student feedback, and building post-event momentum with 21-day Rhythms journals. Above all, we come back to a simple conviction: the message of Jesus doesn’t change, but our methods should, because generations do.

If you’re wrestling with what to cut, where to focus, and how to sustain growth between mountaintops, this conversation will help you act with clarity and courage. Subscribe, share with a fellow leader, and leave a review to tell us where the Spirit is leading your ministry next.

SPEAKER_02:

Hi, I'm Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event, a Youth Ministry podcast presented by Christ and Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. Today, our guest is Tyler Hinsley. He's the student pastor at Forum Christian Church in Columbia, Missouri. And we are going to be finishing up our conversation about kind of sticking with tried and true programming, which we talked about last week. And this week we're talking about, you know, trying trying different things, trying something new. So it's going to be a great conversation that we are going to have with Tyler. But before we jump into that, I am joined by my friend and director of digital resources, Caitlin Adams. Caitlin, virtually welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks, Brad. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Always good to be here. Yeah, it's it's it's a delight. It's later than I wanted to have you on in the year.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it was yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But there was things there were things going on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Life updates. Lots of things.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, you know, have a third kid. Had a baby. Spend the whole time out of the office in the fall. Um so yeah, it's been it's just been kind of a crazy season over here adjusting, but it's been wonderful. And yeah, I'm glad to be back at it.

SPEAKER_02:

How's life as a mother of three?

SPEAKER_00:

It's uh it is just wild all the time. Let me clarify. Three boys. So sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

Age is that's great.

SPEAKER_00:

Five, two, and now five months.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So two of them are old enough to like do real damage to your property.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, which is happening on the bed. Oh, that's the piece.

SPEAKER_02:

The other one requires your constant attention in order to stay alive.

SPEAKER_00:

So yes, that it's been those are the yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I got my five-year-old came down the stairs the other day uh and said, Mom, you have to come see. We turned our bedroom into a trampoline park. Um, how fun. Just let you guys imagine what that was like. Anyway, move on. It was great. It's fine. We're fine.

SPEAKER_02:

Move on. She's like, I don't want to talk about this anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

You're fine.

SPEAKER_02:

Please ask me about work, the only place that I feel like a real human. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Please. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh gosh. Caitlin, we had the so this would be two episodes ago now. Had Jason on the podcast and he um Jason French. You've yes, you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah. So the guy in the framed photo behind you.

SPEAKER_02:

The guy in the framed photo behind me. There he is. Um so Jason is very excited about digital resources right now, which is fun. You know, he um like I I I literally told him we called the uh episode State of the Union, told him that you could talk about whatever you wanted. And a lot of what he talked about was stuff that like you have a lot to do with, which is exciting.

SPEAKER_00:

Or that's a great thing. It's a great thing. I appreciated the airtime.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah, you get twice as much now. But I um that was great. I want to know like what is the because this is, I'm gonna call it still like a new space for CIY to be in. Like we've we really like youth pastors know us as an event company, as an event organization a lot of times. And um, we've had these uh gradual steps that we've made towards being able to kind of resource churches more throughout the year. We have convos, we have follow-up, follow-through, excuse me. We have uh a lot of digital resources and stuff that we sell on our website. But like, what it what are some exciting next steps, either that we have taken since this past summer that you're pumped about, or that we are kind of taking heading into this spring superstar tour into next summer. Basically, when you get out of the mor out of bed in the morning, like why are you like, yes, yeah, work, let's do this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let's do it. Besides uh that I get to see be an adult human who uses my brain for a skill, but kind of it's great. It's great. But so uh no, I I thought um, yeah, Jason alluded to uh to a lot of it uh a couple episodes ago if you listened um to that. But we I think the thing I am the most excited for still is the follow-through app that we launched last summer. Um what's coming this summer is uh I is what I am super, super pumped for. So I think we watch the church, all of you listeners with students uh all summer uh watch your students stand up and claim the ways that God was moving in their hearts. And we have celebrated that, and I know you all have celebrated that, but um it it it lit continued to light this fire at CIY uh of knowing that we can't stop until we put some re more resources into your hands to follow up with those students so that they can follow through on those decisions. And so watching the vocational ministry decision last summer was just incredible. And I am equally as excited to be able to resource uh Kingdom Worker decisions this coming summer is gonna be it's really our main focus. It's a huge new learning pathway that we're gonna drop into the follow-through app so that students can set up an account and then they'll be able to uh either choose a vocational ministry decision or a follow uh sorry, or a kingdom worker decision, or uh if they made a first-time decision, there will be a path with some content in there for them as well as a rededication decision. So the the ways that we acknowledge that uh decision process in the room and we kind of break that down for uh for students, there will be content in there for all four of those decisions this coming summer. Um so I'm so pumped for that. I think I think the other piece of that, and I want to make sure listeners know this. If you have any students in the follow-through app, you as the youth pastor or church admin of any type, you have access to watch their progress. So you can log into the follow-through dashboard. You can see how many of your students selected your church as their church. Uh, you can see how many mentors or adults selected your church, you can see who's connected, you can see how far they've gotten. And so that uh I that has been uh I've been just really uh getting time with churches to hear how that uh has looked and what that experience has been like. Uh and it continues, I think, to be one of uh just one of the best ways that we can we can help serve uh after the event is just to say, hey, your kid chose this vocational ministry decision. Now they're on step four. You can ask them this question about what they're learning or about what they met with their mentor about. There's parent resources, all of those things.

SPEAKER_02:

So really, hold on. Uh you you were about to, you're about it felt like you were about to move on to something like kind of and this, and I want to hang right where you are for a second. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I take a lot of pride in this in this podcast being somewhere where we can like pull back the curtain a little bit. And what you just said, um, I know that you didn't say because you didn't have anything else to say, but you said it because uh we have data that suggests that uh even though there are a a significant number of students uh in the follow-through app, there are not as many uh youth pastors engaging uh on this level as as what we expected to see or what we would like to see. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, yeah, I would say that's accurate.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it's because like there are there there are three kind of layers to this, right? It help help me like understand and make sure that I'm saying all this right. There's a student who logs on and says, I want to go into vocational ministry. They designate a mentor, right? So Michael wants to go into vocational ministry, he dedicates Brad as his mentor, but there's also another layer, right? Which is like a church uh person who even if you're not like maybe you are the youth pastor, Caitlin, and even though you're not Michael's mentor, I am, you still have the ability to see what's going on in my relationship with Michael and how that whole process is is going. Structurally, that's how it works, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes, yep, that's correct. So in the youth pastor, I mean, many students would designate their youth pastor as their mentor. That may be the person who brought them to move, and there's enough of them that that want to, you know, so so some of that has been happening in the youth pastor can serve in that mentor role as well as be the sort of admin that can check into the the back end. So all of all of that really to say if we're if we're breaking it down like that, Brad, is there's a back end of follow through that shows you your database. And every church, particularly every church who went to move this last summer, has a database live with an admin denoted to it. So if you don't have access to that, let me know because I will help people walk you through that.

SPEAKER_02:

So I'm youth pastor at First Christian Church of Hoboken, New Jersey, and I'm hearing this for the first time. What do I do?

SPEAKER_00:

Email follow through at CIY.com.

SPEAKER_02:

And we can help you figure it out.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I will personally be the one who gets that email and I will follow up with you and walk you through, make sure you understand.

SPEAKER_02:

She'll follow up so that you can follow through.

SPEAKER_00:

There we go. There we go.

SPEAKER_02:

That was good, right? Okay. Well, anyway, because I do like this the can I speak bluntly?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, of course. Your podcast, Brad.

SPEAKER_02:

This would be a ridiculous resource for youth pastors not to take advantage of. Like if you're if you're not on it, you're just missing out, and there's no two ways about it. We're not charging you money for it. It is a free resource. It gives you the ability to keep uh a pulse on students that have made really important decisions and help them along in their journey. It puts resources in your hands so that you don't have to make some of the resources that we have made. And it's just an incredible thing. And I know it it really plays into what we're gonna talk to Tyler about here in a second. Where it's like we talked about this very thing in our conversation, where it's like I know that when you hear me say this, it sounds like I am encouraging you to do more work to a lot of people. It's like download this app and figure it out and access my account, and then I gotta know, okay. I I see Michael and Brad on here, but I don't see Lauren, and where's Lauren? And frankly, I know that it sounds like more work, but it is going to make your job as youth pastor easier. Yes. That is Brad talking, who is not Caitlin. So if you are offended by what I just said, then it's me, not Caitlin. That's important. Okay. Caitlin would never do anything offensive.

SPEAKER_00:

Do not email comments to follow through at CIY.com.

SPEAKER_02:

Only email follow through at CIY.com if you don't know how to access your account.

SPEAKER_00:

No, you can you can give me any feedback there at all. And I'll wow, look at that. Very happy to have it. Truly, truly.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Follow through at CIY.com. It's great. So we we really, really, really, really, really, really, really are hoping to see more um student pastors engage with that. I think the problem is a lot of youth pastors don't know that it's there. True. Truly, I I think that's the case. I don't think it's that they're like ignoring it or shluffing it off or whatever. But um so hopefully this message gets out to some people and they realize that we're not trying to sell them something and this is just a great thing for them to use, and maybe they'll be able to use it. Wouldn't that be and Kate?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I want you to report back to me. I want you to let me know how many emails you get at follow through at CIY.com that say, hey, I was listening to the podcast, and uh I want to get this figured out. So uh Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00:

And I and I'll let me let me give you this as well, listener. Right now on your device that you're listening to this podcast on.

SPEAKER_02:

If you'll type in not if you're driving. If you're driving, don't not if you're driving.

SPEAKER_00:

Not if you're driving. If you're jogging, pause. Jog slow, pause your fitness app, type in follow through dot app. That is where you access the dashboard. So the database for your church, that's where you're gonna go to log in. So if your if your email doesn't work to log in there, do the two-factor authentication. You don't even need a password. If it does not work there, then email me. But if you want to skip the email step, follow through dot app.

SPEAKER_02:

Side note I am so, so thrilled that so many of the things that I have to log into are just doing away with passwords altogether. And it's like just enter your phone number, we'll send you a text, and you get in that way. And you don't have to do the password thing. It's just straight to the two-factor authentication. I I need all of the tech moguls and business leaders out there who are listening to this podcast right now to just shift things in that direction permanently. Let's just not do passwords. We don't need them anymore. Peichel, do you think we need passwords? Largely no. Yeah, largely no. That's can I tell you a story? That's such a five thing to say, Pike. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00:

That doesn't matter. The only reason we have the password on this at all is that we were logging in and switching to practice so much that the two-packer authentication was slowing us down way too much. That's why there's even a password option. So that's my fault. Sorry, Brad.

SPEAKER_02:

But you just said you don't need it.

SPEAKER_00:

No, you don't. You can have either. Right. You can you can choose. Choose your own adventure.

SPEAKER_02:

Choose your own adventure. And I like getting the text because it makes me feel like I have friends.

SPEAKER_00:

That's great. We should move on. This is all right.

SPEAKER_02:

It's time for time for mic top. Great.

SPEAKER_03:

Excuse my cough. Didn't give you much of a runway for that one. Um no, not much at all. Um you said let's move on, and I moved on. Yeah, we're moved on. We're moved on. Um I think this episode airs February 2nd. Oh, happy almost Valentine's Day, everybody. I think. If my math is right, I could look at the schedule. It doesn't really matter. So we're a month into 2026. Um and also I'm coming up with this, like I I've been coming up with this question in real time, so I don't know that I really have an answer to this question. You can turn it on me if you really want to, but we'll see. Um but thinking about 2026, um what is this year gonna be about for us? Not like not us as in the podcast or CIY, but um, geopolitically things. Geopolitically and individually, primarily, please. Okay. Um what are the things that we're thinking about in 2026 that we want to focus on or um try and accomplish or you know what have you. This could be a New Year's resolution con conversation, or it could just be uh because I'm not a resolution person. I don't I don't think of you know, this is the thing I'm I'm gonna do this year. I don't really think of that.

SPEAKER_02:

But are you like a this is my word for 2026 person? No, not really. Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean honestly.

SPEAKER_00:

I am also not aware of the thing.

SPEAKER_03:

The funny thing about me asking this question is that I've never really been a this is what I want to focus on this year.

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe this conversation's gonna spur me on a lot of people are like New Year's resolution, boo. But here's the deal we uh live in this uh construct where we've created natural cycles. It's like, okay, the earth takes this much time to go around the sun. We have a natural reset here, okay? And it makes sense to think through things in this way. Like okay, it's 2026, brand new year. What do what do I want to look back on and be like, yeah, this is awesome. I'm glad that we did this in 2026. Um Caitlin, you go first.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man. Um resolution, basically, is really what we're asking. And I and I do, I agree. I think the I think the renewal, a season of opportunity for renewal is uh important and necessary. I think uh so I but I am I haven't been categorically a resolution person or a word, word of the year person either. Um so I will be curious where this stands a few weeks from now as this episode airs. But um I spent a lot of last year focusing and on parenting, right? On be uh on on uh our family and you know, alongside really massive work uh projects and very exciting things that that we've been able to be a part of. But um I I think this year I am looking forward to really rhythms just um in our family structure and the ability to take moments to make um uh make parenting choices instead of just reacting to things that are happening um in our in our house as as things happen and we just react and make a parenting decision in that moment. Uh we've realized, oh no, this has to be uh we we'd like to be more proactive in um deciding the rhythms of our family uh when we're in prayer together, when we're in devotional together, when we're you know screen free and not, and I mean just each of those things are choices that are building very quickly now. As I my oldest is five already, and it's gone so fast. So I'm I think that um that is uh that's a big thing for me personally. Um, rhythms of being healthy and making healthy choices, those things are all are all in that for us. Um But I think Well, I'll pause there. I have more for work, but I think that was that was that's where I'm at personally. Brad?

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. Um I would love for 2026 to be the year of saying uh yes to more things, which is funny because I think a lot of times people want to say no to more things. But here's the deal. I've gotten really good at saying no to things. I love not doing things. It's great. Uh I've pretty pretty horrific uh social anxiety. So if I get invited to something, I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. And I stay home instead. Probably have done that to the point where it's you know not the best. So I just want to like be a person who says yes to things, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Saying that makes me want to throw up. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00:

That is the risk for sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Um I think um I I I think there's there's a few things that are kind of on my mind. Um I have a meeting in 10 minutes, so I do need you to say them quickly. Right. Um I think 2026 is the year that I want to buy a car. Oh. I hate my car, the one that I'm currently driving. It sucks. It does suck. Um I have put so much money into it in the last two and a half years. You rebuilt the engine not too long ago. Aaron Ross Powell, not myself, but I paid for it. You paid somebody to rebuild the engine. Yeah. Um and uh and a lot of other things. I'm just ready to stop paying for this car to barely stay alive. Um, and I'm ready to be driving something I feel a lot more confident about. So I'm hoping I'm hoping to do that this year. Um I also um at the end of last year, I don't know what drove me to to start doing this. Um maybe it was just a very strong dissatisfaction with myself. Um I started doing push-ups every day. I never work out, which is terrible. Um but I I started at like 10, which was I think my limit at the time, and I'm up to 20 right now. Although this morning I couldn't I couldn't get past 19. So um I went and took a shower and then did 10 more after the shower. So, you know, so I did 29 today. Um That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02:

You got all sweaty after your shower? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Not real, not really.

SPEAKER_02:

My New Year's resolution is not to do a single. Take a shower? That's gross, Brad. Not to do a not one. I want to do zero push-ups in 2026.

SPEAKER_03:

Um but also uh I think just like spiritually, I I um I'm not gonna worry about going into any like super specifics or anything, but like the last couple of years, Brad knows um about this. I've just been like a little bit of a rocky season for me, um uh with certain with certain aspects of my life. And and over the course of that, I have just been really trying to figure out like what does deeper, more meaningful dependency on the Lord actually mean. Um, and I think 2026, I would love to have um a clearer, a clearer picture of of that and have a more robust prayer life. Um but I don't know, that feels a little bit less um specifically defined for me right now, but it is something that I was thinking about even this morning.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's very good.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, uh timeline-wise, this doesn't make sense to anybody, but I have to go to a meeting right now, so we're gonna jump to a conversation that we already had with Tyler Hensley, and you guys are gonna love it.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's go talk to Tyler. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, Tyler. Uh I'm the type of person who likes routine. I like to like find my groove and find what works and just and ride there. Um, a lot of times doing new things freaks me out a little bit because I'm like, I have this old way of doing things and it's delightful and lovely and productive and whatever, you know. Um, just from like a mentality perspective, I'm like, I would much rather be in my bag, you know, just like doing what I do. So what is it about you that's like, no, I want to I want to throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and just see what sticks.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, I don't think I've always been like this. When I started out in student ministry, I was very much uh wanting to do what's always worked and stick with, I would say, tradition. I like traditions and other parts of my life. Uh, but then feel like the Holy Spirit working in our students and through me uh just led me to this place of like, I need to be more willing to change and to change how we reach students. Um, what I would say is the most important thing is that the message never changes. Like we're always focused on Jesus and the gospel. And if we're doing that, then the ways that we do it are totally up for changing as long as we're focused on that same mission message, message. Um, so that's kind of where that's come from is just wanting to serve our our our students well, wanting to serve his church well. And so yeah, I like changing things.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you remember some of the first you're like, okay, so I I used to be really like kind of by the book, you know, whatever. Do you remember some of the first moments where you were like pushed out of your comfort zone a little bit on that? Or I know I'm asking you to like reflect on something that you may not have had a chance to reflect on, but I'm just curious. And when you look back, you're like, yeah, there was this change that I was actually really um really hesitant to push through, and I'm glad I did, or whatever, because that helped me to get to this point where I'm at now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would say we our context at forum, we're Midwest Church, uh part of Missouri. Like the middest West thing there ever was. Yeah. And so we had a lot of programming for students, which is awesome. Like I want to be with our students anytime we can be together is great.

SPEAKER_02:

So paint paint a picture of that a little bit. What when when you say you had a lot of programming, like how uh list it out for me? What uh what did you guys do?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so when I started a forum, we had which you've been performing for a hundred years, right? A little less, 10% of that. Yeah, 11, 11 and a half years.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, great. Um in youth ministry terms, that's a hundred years. I hate to tell you that, but that's where we're at right now. So I'm pretty, I'm pretty old.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Our middle school minister now is 22. She's amazing. Her name's Shelby uh was our grad, but yeah, I'm I'm old. Yeah. So when I started, we had Sunday mornings. We had there's just like high school class, and then Sunday nights, we had life groups that were different, and those were by grade. And then we had pickup basketball Sunday nights that we also did after life groups. So everybody came back to the church. We play pickup basketball. And then on Wednesdays, we had youth group, and I was a life group leader, so I was teaching three times a week and writing that content. And uh it's a lot good, but a lot. And so I remember being in Bible college and being told like, don't change anything until you've been at a church for the first year. A year, yeah. Don't change anything, right? Right, and so it's like, okay, I'm not changing anything. And I think there's a lot of wisdom in that of like, sure, we come out of Bible college, we're like ready to seize the day, which is awesome, but like which I mean it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

It's crazy that someone would hire the smartest person in the world and tell them not to change anything for a year. You know what I mean? Like, why would anybody do that? Why would anybody take somebody who knows literally everything and tell them not to change anything for an entire year? I don't understand. You can't imagine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know that we're all the smartest people in the world who'll be graduating. Um I thankfully the Holy Spirit works.

SPEAKER_02:

Thankfully, the Holy Spirit has allowed me to forget what I was like when I just graduated from Bible college.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um so yeah, we're told that. I think that's good. I think there's wisdom in that advice. But also at some point, like God has made you unique in the way that you minister and the gifts that you have, and also the context you're in. Like if you had a dart board with the country, you throw a dart and you hit a state, you're gonna see 50 different youth ministries doing 50 different things. And so being willing to change and adapt and to grow alongside your students and their families and the church, I think is really important. And so we started just praying about okay, what what things are our bread and butter? What are the things that it's like our students value? And then what are the things that it's like, we probably don't need that anymore? So pickup basketball, as much as I love basketball from Indiana, we don't play pickup basketball as like its own thing. We have it at other stuff, but like none of our students now even remember that. None of our leaders remember that. So it's like that was an easy change. But then going to YMS in 2019, 2020, um, was just praying about like where are we headed, what's God calling us to, and had a lot of people speaking into like students in the auditorium and serving is so important. And being challenged of like, what would it look like to not have a Sunday class on Sunday mornings and have students in the auditorium and have them serving? And that was pretty scary, pretty intimidating. And it had uh challenges and growing pains with it, but coming out of that years later, like we have seen all the ways that God was working in and through that. We have students that are serving in all areas of our church. We have students in the auditorium sitting around all different generations. Our youth group on Wednesdays is larger than it's ever been. And Sunday mornings they don't have a class. We have something on Sunday nights, but that's okay. And so just seeing like the the depth of relationship, the depth of commitment uh to Jesus for each of them, uh it's been really cool.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome. Tyler, what was the what was like the hardest change either of those programs or since then? What's been something that people were not for right away? Uh maybe the golden calf, like what what was difficult?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Sunday mornings was a difficult change. Uh who were the stakeholders?

SPEAKER_02:

Who were the stakeholders that were like I'm gonna add that to Caitlin's question. Like because you can have different groups of people who like push back on different things for different reasons. You know, like eldership might push back on something, parents might push back on something, students might push back on, whatever it may be. Um, I'm curious as you walk through this to know like where you faced some maybe healthy even challenge and like how that informed the process, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And uh we did, I would be the first to say we did not roll that out perfectly because if you remember what happened in 2020, COVID. And so we had a big break of student ministry online. We had uh youth group online, social distancing youth group, all the different things everybody was trying. And so then when we came back in, we were encouraged as our staff to like not just go back to what you've been doing, but like, where is God leading the church and what can we do? And that was um a really difficult time for people, for students, for families, everything. There were a lot of doubts in leadership, not just like in the government, but in every part of your life. And so students were wanting, and parents and everyone was wanting to get back to just normalcy. And so by doing a change right then, I think that led to disappointment, that led to questions and concern, um, that led to just like, is this the right decision? Or are we just abandoning families? Like lots of very good questions and good conversations. And like looking back, I can see like some key places where it's like we probably not even probably we could have done better of rolling out this big of a change. Um and so we've we've grown through it and tried our best to to work through it and um tried to just be open-handed with everything we do.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it's really interesting that you're like when I when I kind of pitched this conversation to you, uh, you said, yeah, like I'm really passionate about trying new things and not always just doing things the way that we've always done them. Even though I like you said, tradition is valuable and and there's kind of a time and place and a context for that as well, which um we we will uh we haven't had this conversation yet, but by the you know, we will have talked about this on our last episode that came out on the feed. Um but you're I I think when people think and uh I should uh personalize this a little bit. I think when I think about like trying new things, I'm thinking about adding things to my plate. And that's a lot of times what like can be overwhelming. Like if I wanted to start a new workout regimen, it's like, okay, I have to find time that did not previously exist, and I have to work this into my schedule, and I have to come up with an entirely new rhythm, and that is is stressful, that's overwhelming for me to think about from a youth pastor's perspective because hey, I'm really busy. I'm already working a lot, I'm already doing a lot of things. Like, why would I want to add this to my plate? But I I really appreciate that you're kind of framing this as like, hey, trying new things can also be simplifying, and that maybe even simplifying can give you the margin that you need in order to introduce some of these other things. Am I kind of representing what you're saying well? Because that is a different take on this for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think you're summing it up really well. I read uh this last summer on the way to CIY, uh, finished up practicing the way. And one of the things that uh Comer talks about a lot is uh saying no to things. It can often be what Jesus is asking us to do. Like we're so busy in the Western world. And so saying no to things can be really good. And with changes, like there is a ton of comfortability and running the same play, especially if you've been in any context of ministry for an extended amount of time, a couple of years. It's like, I know what to do, I know how this looks, I know how my week looks. But the comfortability can also be dangerous because you're comfortable. You're just doing running the plays, you're not asking the spirit to lead in any way, potentially. And that's that's not to say everybody's doing that, but I think when it comes to like looking to where the Holy Spirit is leading us, oftentimes it's it's not just run the same thing. It could be something else. It could be saying no to something, but it could also be like tweaking something and adapting it. That's how we view our Sunday nights, really, at forum for students uh for high school, is that that is wide open. Like wherever we feel like God is leading us in that, we're gonna, we're gonna go towards it. And so nothing is really set in stone besides whatever we're doing at that time. And when we finish whatever we're studying or whatever you thing we're in, it's like, okay, um, what's next?

SPEAKER_02:

And it doesn't always fit perfectly into that whatever previous template you were using. It's like everything is on the table. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so I was talking, we had a leader meeting last Sunday, and I had some new leaders, and they were asking what summer looks like for Wednesdays and Sundays. And I was like, I don't know, I gotta pray on that. Because last summer we just did Sunday nights, and the summer before that we just did Wednesdays, and the layout those looked different. And there were good things and bad things for both. So just being open to how do we reach our students where they're at right now, and how do we continue to walk with them in the different seasons of their year? So help me case study this a little bit.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Let's so you said you haven't made a plan for your summer yet. And I'm not asking you to make any decisions about your ministry, but like help me understand what kinds of things you would take into consideration as you plan your summer. Like, what are you seeing in your students? What are you noticing their needs are? What are you hearing from them? How is that informing, you know, different decisions that you're making about the summer and what you may or may not choose to do? Like, help me in a real practical sense understand because you've got uh four months to figure this out, you know, or whatever. Help me understand where your mind is at and how you're gonna like engage in this process of you know listening and learning and and getting to a point where I mean you're gonna get to the summer and you're gonna have something, you know. So help me get there with you. You know what I mean? Like help me know what that looks like. Yeah. Yeah. Can I piggyback on Brad's question? Please clear that up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Make it make sense. I was going to ask the same question, but but specifically for the role of feedback, like what What role are when you have students celebrating or complaining about something in particular? Or same question for leaders, like what role are you taking? Because I think for me it would be, it has been in the past in student ministry, just it's always been a balance of getting that feedback from students and they really want Sundays and Wednesdays all summer long, or leaders really want neither, or everybody wants a brand. Like, how how do you balance all of the feedback?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, those are really good questions with uh looking to summer. Uh, like we move is on the calendar, we already have our spots, that's done. Mix is on the calendar.

SPEAKER_02:

That's like a tent pole. That's not, you know, that's not regular.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. But like, so I know that's there. Right. And holidays are in play there too. So it's like, okay, do we meet? Do we not? Um, but it is like conversations with my leaders. I'm so thankful for the team of leaders that I have. Like I tell them all the time, and I tell our students all the time, like, this ministry is not possible without them. And so their feedback is super important. I try to meet with all of them pretty regularly throughout the school year and in the summer. Um, they're the same leaders we take to move, are same for middle school with leaders going to mix. So they have a huge input into um like how things are going, how do we continue to reach their students? Because I'm not in every single small group, I'm in one. And so helping them as they navigate their different needs of their small groups, leading those small groups. Um and then when it comes to like feedback, uh, I my personality, I feel like, is pretty like relational. And so I'm thankful that a lot of people just come tell me, like, hey, we we want to do this or we like this or we don't like this, or I'll just ask students. Uh, the way we got to where we are for Sunday nights for this semester, I just started a group chat with eight random students that are not connected to each other. And so they all started texting me apart from the group chat. They're like, Am I supposed to be in this conversation? I said, Yes, you are. And I said, What do you want to learn? What do you want to study? Like, what do you want to know more about? And so getting their different feedback, that really ended up leading us to where we are studying revelation this school year on Sunday nights. That was something I never would have.

SPEAKER_02:

Can I just tell you a very funny anecdote, really quick? Um, your students getting that and being like, Am I supposed to be in this group chat? reminded me, and I think everyone will just appreciate hearing this, um, how bad at group chats Jason French is, our good friend, Jason French, who um the other day meant to send a message to two people in our organization and instead sent it to the entire organization. And it was not incriminating or mean. It was just funny that it's like, oh grandpa, this is how this is how you do this, you know? Um, so anyway, that reminded me of that. I thought everyone would want to hear that. But now you can continue.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so good. Yeah, I just try to talk to them and hear their feedback um and let them like lead. Like it's you're ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00:

Um for the audio.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

For the audio holding up a framed photo of Jason French that is sitting on the shelf directly behind him.

SPEAKER_02:

I actually take it with me everywhere I go.

unknown:

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02:

Of course you do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry. Oh, so good. Um no, I would say, because I backtracking a lot, but to what Brad had said about you're passionate about change. And I would say the three kind of reasons why that is. One is the students were ministering to change, like generations change. And so if you are in student ministry long enough, you're gonna have a completely different generation of people, and they have different interests, different passions, uh, just different things they want to learn about. And so still holding to that same message, but meeting them where they're at and reaching them where they're at. Like we did because of the Holy Spirit, amazing ministry 10 years ago, and it looks totally different than what we're doing now. And that's because the Holy Spirit. Um, but I think another change that or reason I'm passionate about change is because we change as youth pastors. Like I am not the 22-year-old on a Wednesday night. Thank God. I do not want to play.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I do not want to play dodgeball. I do not want to like be sizing up some of our like huge guys that it's like, how are you 17? Like, you are a man. Like, I don't want to be playing them in basketball. Like, I want to be talking to students, I want to be checking in on leaders. I just want to be around. I don't need to dominate nine square. Like, so just even myself, like as I grow in age, but also like closer to Jesus, like my passions and the ways I want to interact with students changes too. And so if I just kept doing the exact same thing, then it's not gonna fit where God has brought me and how I'm looking hopefully more like Jesus every day. And so it's like listening to the spirit, seeing what you're passionate about, what's changing, seeing what they're passionate about, and saying, like, okay, how do we like uh maybe try something new? Or keep doing the same thing. If it if it works and it's good, yeah, do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So like what I want to get like sewing the weeds on it. Like, what are you noticing in your students? What is part of their DNA right now that you're looking at and saying, like, okay, I really need to consider this as I'm making decisions on what we are going to do this summer and next fall. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They are super hungry for God's word. And so we are not doing any topical type studies right now. I'm not opposed to them in the past. I think they serve a great purpose. Uh, but on Sunday nights we're studying through the book of Revelation, and on Wednesday nights we just started this last week, but we're doing 16 weeks in Exodus. And so OT book, new T book, like just do you ever interacting like getting off the milk and giving them solid food at any point?

SPEAKER_02:

Or like what's maybe one day. Yeah, someday.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Maybe one day.

SPEAKER_02:

Um we could just try to challenge them just a little bit. I think that could go a long way for you guys. Yeah, you know, I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But like that desire, I think um many things are to credit of that, one of them being rhythms. So when we've gone to move the last two years, we buy rhythm books for our every student that goes, and we buy extra to bring home too. And so when students are getting off the bus, we hand them a rhythms journal. So that I guess is a part of our summer that is like kind of locked in is the 21 days after move, we're doing rhythms. And their leaders are coming from CIY back. We're meeting at the church, we're talking about it. They have group chats, we're trying to like let's build off this momentum because we go in July. So it's like leading up into the start of school. Let's keep that going, like keep running after Jesus. And so that's a huge credit of it. And then um there's this generation.

SPEAKER_02:

Even that though, like we've done that two years. Uh, you know, last not this past summer, but the summer before, you had to have like a willingness to be like, okay, let's, you know, let's it was a new thing, yeah. Let's do this, you know. So I mean, you talk about it as if it's like a locked in part of your summer, but I mean you did it for the second time this summer, you know. So even that is like evidence of of kind of what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So just um what did you ask?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, I don't know. I have no idea. You can see what are we seeing?

SPEAKER_01:

No, what are we seeing in them? Yeah. So that a hunger for God's word, um uh like a desire to to worship. So that's you know, we're always on Wednesday nights. We have student-led and leader-led worship. We love that part of the night. Um, time and community, super good. And then also like a huge desire to use the gifts that God has given them. And so that led to the Sunday change a couple of years ago. And now we have students that are in high school that lead in middle school ministry, students leading in kids and all around the church. But now we have middle schoolers that have seen those high schoolers that are wanting to serve. And so, like move up Sunday uh this past year, one of my favorite things I've I could memory, I can see at Claire's Day is these two sixth grade boys walking into the lobby wearing their kids' ministry shirts because they were serving now with like three-year-olds. And they were so excited because they had just moved up, they're now able to serve. And so just seeing that and being like a church that's like, hey, we want to let you serve. We want to help you serve. We want to walk with you in this because you are the church. And uh just really thankful to get to be a part of a ministry where we focus on that.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so awesome. That's incredible. That's I feel like that one is a huge piece just on its own. I mean, I know we've talked already about the Sunday morning change, but I I was a part of uh three churches in my 12 years in student ministry and made that shift at each one of them. Oh wow. And it was just as terrible every time. So hard. Not terrible in the sense of obviously, I mean, it's for the same reasons you already mentioned it. It was completely worth it. But it is that is it was one of the more difficult pieces to shift and cast vision for for those that have experienced a a worship experience in the same way, in the same context for so long. And so to move collectively so many parents and students to all have catch a vision for something different. So, Tyler, you already talked a little bit about like the benefits of that, but would you expand some on the serving piece? And then if there were any other, I would just say to even like advice for sort of a a monumental programming shift like that. I mean, I know smaller things or tweaking programs are one thing, but to shift such a massive uh thing. Talk a little bit more about that in the and the serving that that your students are experiencing.

SPEAKER_01:

So wow, you did that at three different churches. Right. That's amazing. It was crazy. That is amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

But still working on the harder, doing that at three churches or giving birth to three children?

SPEAKER_00:

Not a fair question.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Right. Similar levels of difficulty. I don't know. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_02:

Sorry, go ahead, Dyke.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh man. Yeah. So I would encourage anyone that is feeling called to make a change in their ministry to start with prayer. I think uh Colossians 1 9 is one of my favorite verses about this, but it just says, from the day that we heard about you, we've not stopped praying for you. So it's Paul writing to this church. And like if we are not praying over our ministry and our students and our families constantly, that that's that's a red flag. We should be doing that all the time. And that should be the thing that's influencing that change. But what has been super helpful for me too is taking that time of prayer into community. So with leaders, with students, with our church staff, but also like knowing other youth pastors. Like I'm super thankful that I've gotten to go to YMS multiple times to interact with youth pastors that I went to school with, but also all over the country that I meet out there. But also like I'm friends with youth pastors at other churches in Colombia. Like we go get coffee together, we pray for each other, we spend time together. So even just being able to go to the guy that does church a mile from here and say, Hey, I've got this crazy idea that I feel like the Holy Spirit's doing. What do you think about this? What how would you and so I would encourage people to always be praying, right without ceasing, and then find those relationships and trusted community where you can bounce ideas, where you can pray for each other, encourage each other. Like that is there's an infinite value to having that, to being able to have other people either say yes, you should do that thing, or be like, actually, you should not do that. Right. Like so having the the community involved in that, um and just being willing to try. It's okay to uh admit something didn't work, and that was like my biggest fear.

SPEAKER_02:

I was gonna say, what what is what is your relationship to failure? Like what does that do to Tyler Hensley? You know?

SPEAKER_01:

Um when I fail, I feel like I let people down.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And so it is that is that growing process.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that going through your mind when you're looking at these things? Like for sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Like when we made the Sunday change, I mean that was a huge piece of like, am I failing these students? Am I failing these families by us making this change? And then like if we go back, am I saying like I was wrong? It's like, well, yeah, it's okay to be wrong. It's okay to to try other things to change, and um so giving that to Jesus is what I have to do a lot. Like no, my value doesn't come from other people but from him.

SPEAKER_02:

I um I'm really thankful for the way that you're talking about this because you're you it sounds like honestly that you're a little bit like me, where it's it's like I'm not naturally inclined to want to change, but like I'm willing to follow the spirit wherever he uh uh uh you know leads me when it comes to to my to my ministry. But there's like another another kind of person looking at this conversation from the other side who might be prone to like change for the sake of change, because like they're bored, you know, and it's like let's mix this up, let's do something different. And that that mentality does not speak to me, and that's fine. But like the same principle applies where it's like no, the advice to that person might be, hey, slow down a little bit and listen to the spirit, follow the spirit, um and and um be willing to make changes based on what he reveals to you, which I think is really cool and really helpful.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, thanks. Yeah. That's like that's why I've loved these conversations this season, is not no one's doing uh something wrong, like in either camp, right? If you're like big on tried and true and it's working and that's where the spirit's leading you, then absolutely like follow the spirit. But if the spirit's leading you to change and then you're like holding on to it, like I don't want to change, I don't want to change. That that's not good. You you need to follow what the spirit's calling you to do. Um that's my encouragement.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, I so you're you're you're a listener of this podcast, which I really appreciate. Um it's just you and my mom, which is you know, hey, that's good company to be a part of. I'll hear it for it. Um so since we're talking about change and since you're better at it than me and I don't like change, and you mentioned that you like what we're doing this season of the podcast, I I have no idea what I'm gonna do next season. What should I do?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I you talked about uh interviewing different youth pastors with different Enneagram numbers. Yeah, I hate that idea. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I would skip some of them. I'm just being honest.

SPEAKER_02:

Which ones? Like nine or two. I don't know if I know nobody cares about nines. No, I'm not listening to the fives, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Like I'm a I don't know what a five is. It's like the engineer.

SPEAKER_00:

The like you're you're that that episode will be at least twice as long as typical.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, and I'm the good's a five. Oh you're a five. Yeah, five-wing four.

SPEAKER_01:

Fight, fight, fight, fight. See, I I have found out there are many people in my life that are fives that I'm like, I never would have thought that. But I'm a two, I'm just like the truest two. And so like I I care deeply for like the church and things I'm passionate about. So then, like, sometimes when you're interacting with a five, I interpret it as like, man, they're heartless. But they're just they're just like stating facts, they're just like telling you how it is. That's actually they have no intention to go on the nose. They have no intention of hurting your feelings. They're just telling you what it is. This is just this is it.

SPEAKER_03:

Brad, am I heartless? No, you're not heartless.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, great. But like you That's for clarification. You are capable of like talking about things with a sterility that I'm not, you know? Where it's like It's a compliment. It no, I'm it's it is, but it's like I just don't it's just not my Yeah. Like I have to feel everything. And sometimes I think maybe you feel nothing. I don't know. Just get in. That's that's so unfair and untrue.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Um we're off the rails of it. We are less throwing it around.

SPEAKER_01:

We've lost it. But maybe you could interview some students.

SPEAKER_00:

I like that.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a good idea. What time of day would I have to do that?

SPEAKER_00:

Good point.

SPEAKER_02:

Just pick students that are in the easy school. Welcome to youth ministry. Michael, I'm just gonna pick homeschooled students.

SPEAKER_01:

Just look at the calendar. They got like they get in. Okay off, Presidents Day off, random Tuesdays because it's a Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00:

They're off for virtual hours. No, none of them go to school anymore.

SPEAKER_02:

So what what what what would be like a helpful conversation that you would hear me talk to a student about? Like what title of an episode would you see me talking to a student about and be like, oh, that's interesting?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it'd be cool just to take some of those Kingdom Worker stories that we get to see at CRY. I mean, they're so impactful, but being able to expound, like, because you know, like you all do a great job of telling it, but we've got four minutes to hear everything in this the story, and there's way more there. Um so just being able to talk to students about that, like what the spirit did in their life, what that led them to, how that's going, like I think that'd be kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Well, I'll I'll I'll take that under advisement. You might get you might get some of the younger Jin listening. I might. Not just me and your mom. Not just you and my mom. And Ari Hollis. She's another one, and she is in the younger generation, so that makes me feel good. Um just loyal listener, Ari Hollis from Jacksonville, Florida, my hometown. Uh shout out, shout out Ari. Okay, uh, Tyler, this has been great. I I I do um think that like I'm I'm glad we didn't get like super practical on like how do you this is what I did and this is how I did it, and this, you know, but more like uh hey, are you open to this if this is where the spirit leads? And are you engaging in it in a responsible way? So I I, you know, we're coming to the end of our time together here. I just want to say thank you for for kind of leading us in that direction. I do also know that you've uh you take this kind of thing seriously. You give this kind of thing a lot of of a lot of thought and uh consideration, and I appreciate you being just like really ready for this conversation, not in like a preparedness sense, but in like an eagerness sense. I I know that you were psyched for it. Um having said that though, I want to make sure that I haven't like prevented you from taking this conversation in any direction that you thought it would or should go. Are we missing anything? Is there anything that you're like, oh man, I wish that we had had a chance to talk about this. Now's your moment.

SPEAKER_01:

Great question. Uh and if the answer is no, that's fine. I think it's pretty much no, but uh okay, I just want to share a passage that I that I love. Let's do it. Uh it is in Psalm 71. It's verse 17 and 18, and it says, Oh God, from my youth you have taught me, and I still proclaim your wondrous deeds, so even to old age and gray hairs. That's that's me. Uh oh God, do not forsake me until I proclaim your might to another generation, your power to all those to come. That's kind of if I could say, like, what's my heart for ministry? It's that. And so, whatever it looks like to proclaim God to another generation, that's what we want to do. And I think that's the people listening to this podcast, I think that's the people involved with CIY. Like, we're getting older, but we want to just proclaim the truth of the gospel to another generation.

SPEAKER_02:

Amen. So good. Can't think of a better way to end this uh conversation, Tyler. We appreciate you. Keep up the good work, buddy. Hey, thanks, everybody. Thanks, Tyler. Okay, no uh no wall of honor today because Caitlin zoomed in and she can't she can't stick anybody to the board. So uh today, all of you are on our wall of honor. Listeners, we love you. Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester, Lauren Bryan, and myself. Thanks to uh Caitlin for being here. Thanks to Tyler for being here. Uh in a couple of weeks, we are gonna start talking about the age-old. It's uh not actually an age-old debate, but you know, you have a disgruntled student from another ministry show up at your youth group. Do you steer them back or do you accept them with open arms? Oof, we're gonna talk about it. So um be sure to subscribe. Or if you listen to podcasts, if you don't want to miss that. If in the meantime, you're more than welcome to reach out to us on the CIY community Facebook page or at podcast at CIY.com. We'll see you next time.