Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
Bringing together influential voices from the CIY community to walk alongside you in your journey to maintain momentum between the mountaintop experiences of youth ministry.
Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
BTE 5.07 Middle and High School Separate vs. Together: Part 1 with Michelle Kruse and Rob Watson
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A cupcake caper, an Unreal-powered mansion, and a question every youth leader wrestles with: should we separate junior high and high school? We sit down with student pastor Michelle Kruse from Summit Christian Church to unpack how age-intentional programming can transform engagement without requiring a bigger building or a bigger budget. Michelle walks us through their midweek system that alternates middle school and high school in the same space, why the teaching style shifts for each group, and how small groups, worship, and pace change when you design for real developmental stages.
We also explore the hidden engine of healthy transitions: a purposeful preteen ministry. Michelle shares how she launched a fourth and fifth grade service, then empowered a part-time couple—both teachers—to lead with Orange curriculum, accessible teaching, and consistent small groups. The result is a smoother handoff into student ministry, monthly fifth-grade previews of midweek, and camp experiences that ease anxiety. One of our favorite moments: why the car ride home with a parent might be the most important discipleship moment for preteens.
If you’re navigating limited space, limited volunteers, or mixed-age expectations, this conversation offers practical tactics you can try tomorrow: teaching twice in one night, swapping spaces, recruiting part-time leaders, and inviting high schoolers to serve in preteen or middle school to keep mentorship alive. We also get honest about quality tradeoffs, leader health, and how to read your context so you can separate where it matters most and still sustain a life-giving pace.
Subscribe, share this episode with a fellow youth leader, and leave a review with one change you’re considering for your next gathering—we’d love to hear what you’ll try first.
Hi, I'm Brad Warren, and this is Beyond the Event, a youth ministry podcast presented by Christ and Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. Today's guest on the show is Michelle Cruz. She is a student pastor at Summit Christian Church in Sparks, Nevada. She's going to be talking to us today about why it is important for Summit Christian Church that they have separate age-intentional programming. Next week we'll kind of have the foil to that and we'll talk about the benefits of having programming with junior high and high school together. But that's not today. Today is today. And so you'll get to hear from Michelle in just a minute before we do that. I'm joined by CIY's Superstart Programming Lead, Rob Watson. Hey Rob, how are you doing today? Doing amazing. Are you comfortable with that job title? Is that did I call you the right thing? Lead programmer? Superstart lead programmer? Yeah. I don't know. We do not do job titles well, I don't think.
SPEAKER_00:No, and mine it's changed too. Even though I've had the same position, it's changed like three times.
SPEAKER_04:It's like, what do I call myself? Um don't tell Jennifer this. But lips are sealed. One time I was frustrated with my job title. Not because I like wanted a higher ranking job or anything, but just I was like, this is weird. Did I just change? I just changed my email signature. Without asking. You just did it. I was like, this is my job now.
SPEAKER_01:Hi, I'm Brad, the overseas director.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that communication. It was when I worked for Engage because like my job title had the word event in it. And it was like, I don't know, I don't get this. Annie Hoosier. Um how are you doing, Rob? Great. The second time. How are you doing? Did I already ask you? Yeah, you did. That's awesome. It's almost like I was kidding. It's almost like I was uh dropping a hint there that nobody's asked me how I'm doing today. Hey, how are you doing, Bradley? I'm just kidding, I'm great. Um all right, we're here to talk about Superstart. When people hear this podcast, right now this this is not true, but when people hear the podcast, it will be December, which means that when people hear this podcast, next month Superstart begins. Crazy. Okay. So we're all very excited. I love a good superstar tour. Uh, we've already had Corey on the podcast. We talked about how I'm gonna be directing uh four superstarts, which I'm very, very pumped about. And uh that's gonna be great. So I want to know what is going on in the programming world of a superstar.
SPEAKER_01:What do we have to look forward to this year?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it's gonna be good. Like legitimately, honestly. It's gonna be great. Uh Superstar Tour. No doubts. Go ahead. It's called The Mysterious Truth. And so we're just gonna be talking about truth. I know, but it's it's December when they hear it, so it's not it's still mysterious. It is you're right, it's still mysterious. It sounded like a spooky ooh. I just yeah, it was. I don't know. You're right. But we're we're gonna be talking about how to find truth. So uh this is actually a tour that Superstart did a decade ago, and we revamped it, we redid a lot of it, polished it, and um kind of made it more modern for today's day and age, too. But we loved what it's talking about. It just felt really timely. Uh, when we were having interviews with preteen pastors like all across the nation, uh, one of the things that came up was kids responding really well to talks about truths and QA and things like that. And so that's why we decided to do it. And I was like, hey, we have this amazing teaching uh that we've already done. So we decided to do it again and just revamp it. But it felt really pertinent just with like AI things and where where do you go when you're searching for truth? Who do you know to listen to? There's so many more opinions and ways to even get different opinions than there were even a decade ago for a preteen student that it just felt really needed and timely. So we'll be talking about uh always starting with going to God for truth. Uh so when you want one, you want to know truth about life and what you should do. So you look and listen to God for truth, you collect and connect his truths that we find in scripture um through his church, through God's people, and through experience, and then lastly, you show and tell it. So that's a superstar in a nutshell. It's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, it's so good. Um last time we did Mysterious Truth, it was like clue murder mystery vibes.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, no murder, but yes.
SPEAKER_04:Uh but you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Um in case somebody freaked out. There was not a murder mystery. We there's no murder. Um that was a bad thing for me to say, but you understand what I'm saying. Um what's what kind of world are we living in this time? It is the same. Oh fuck! So it's not murder.
SPEAKER_00:And this time there will be, except this time it's personal. Uh another seal. Uh it is actually the same. It's a it's a mystery play. Someone gets cupcaked. It's age appropriate. There's no murder. They get a cupcake thrown at them mysteriously, and you gotta find out who done it, who was the cupcake. It's called the cupcake caper. Uh, and fun fact, so this is what uh this is almost the actual play, it's almost identical to what we did. We changed a couple of things here and there. Uh, this was the first superstar I took my students to as a middle school pastor. And I have this distinct memory of like being there. And uh I had I was sitting in the row with like the really popular kids. These dudes are they're sixth graders, they're kind of like just super like jock into sports, but they were also the like, all right, how long before you start disrupting everyone? I'm gonna have to take you out of session kind of thing. And I remember like Patrick gets up on stage and he's like, Hey, we're we're gonna do a mystery play. And I was like, uh, great. Looks like I won't see any of it because I'm gonna be taking this. And those kids were in it the whole time. Like, I remember looking over and seeing one of them standing up on his chair, yelling like at the stage, like, I know who did it. It was and I just had this moment where I paused and I was like, Oh my goodness, like I was completely wrong. This totally works. So a great thing to be wrong about.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it's fun to come full circle and um to do that.
SPEAKER_04:It is, in addition to just kind of like the skeleton of Superstar, there are always one million and one really fun elements and things, and like I couldn't believe what the stage looked like using like the Unreal Engine backdrop this year was really cool. And you know, it's hard to know what kids are gonna latch on to, but they always latch onto something. Last year it was a young, uh, a young seeming, a young coded uh Gary the Potato. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Who was actually how old? Uh four. No, you mean in the potato? 84. He was uh 84 years old. 84. Portrayed by your son.
SPEAKER_04:Who is four? That's who is four. Um the Corey teased that Gary might be coming back. Maybe. He didn't commit to it. Don't no no no no no. Save it. Hold on to that. I'll save it. Um I am curious if you have anything that you're just like pumped about that you can give us a little peek behind the curtain, a little teaser about anything fun.
SPEAKER_01:Like what's getting you jazzed about this tour? That's not what we just said. Yeah, because that's already these people already know that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Um outside of Gary, yeah, there's actually multiple things, but we have uh you mentioned the Unreal thing, but if you thought like last year's was cool, we like turned everything up. So it looks crazy. There's this there's this mansion, you will be flying in and out of rooms. That it looks I'm literally blown away. Like, I don't have words, I can't. Like they've already set it up and you've seen it on the oh my god I can't describe it because it would fall short in every way possible, even if I spent the entire podcast like, hey, here's what we're doing. Um, but I'll just tell you it will look super incredible.
SPEAKER_04:I've got to have either Peyton or Brian on the podcast to just be like, How do you you I don't understand how do you do it? It's mind-boggling. Um well, I can I literally can't wait to see that. I'm so pumped. Um, they always do a magical job, and that sounds like a really fun and engaging thing to be able to use a few LED panels and turn a stage into a uh a mansion where a murder has taken place.
SPEAKER_01:Where a not murder has taken place. Where a cupcaking has taken place.
SPEAKER_04:A cupcaking. No. Oh, that's so fun. Um, Rob, okay, that's great. I can't wait for Superstart. You and your team always do a really good job of putting everything together. It's super age intentional. Um, and like I mean, like you said, what you experienced 10 years ago is still true, where it's like I never see fourth, fifth, and sixth graders as locked into something as when they are in a large group session at Superstart. Just it never happens. Like, I don't know how you guys do it. You continue to come up with skits and videos and you keep things moving because of the short attention spans and you play interactive games with the whole crowd, and it's just so fun, and I cannot wait. I'm so pumped. Um, so thank you for all you've done to get ready. We're ready to rock and roll. We're hitting the road here in just a few weeks. Um it is now time for Mic Dub. Mic Dub. Uh Rob, this is where Mike, aka Michael, aka producer Michael, aka Pikel, gets to talk about anything that he wants.
SPEAKER_03:Woo-hoo. What if we just spent the entire mic dup with Mike going aka aka?
SPEAKER_04:Actually, I stole that. I stole that from the blank check podcast, if anybody listens to that.
SPEAKER_03:Oh.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:All right.
SPEAKER_04:Um this episode And their their producer does have like 25 nicknames. And they say when when when Griffin, one of the hosts, gets going, he says them all. And it's crazy. I decided to just do four.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and we appreciate that. Um this episode drops December 1. 15. 15. Oh, okay. Great. Cause we had some scheduling things, had to move things around. Great, great, great.
SPEAKER_04:No, you're right. I just didn't switch the dates. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I'm an idiot.
SPEAKER_03:Great. That just, you know, it affects what I'm gonna say. Okay. So um here's a hypothetical situation. You find out that a month from right now, you're going to get teleported to a random location. If you are able to make it back home, you will win a million dollars. You get to find out what that random location is, and you can decide whether or not you're going to do it. You get three locations that you can choose from, okay? So if you don't like the first one, you can say, no, I want the next one. And if you don't like that one, you can say no, I want the next one. And if if you get to the third one, you have to go with the third one. There's no hearing a location and just going, I'm not gonna do it. You either agree to do it and you have to go with one of the locations you get, or you don't do it.
SPEAKER_04:And we get a million dollars.
SPEAKER_03:If you can make it home.
SPEAKER_04:If you so you're dropping us by a helicopter in your own.
SPEAKER_03:No, you just magically teleport. Oh, even better. And you have a month to prepare for this, but you only you only end up like teleporting with whatever you're wearing. Like you don't get to go like no backpack? Does that count?
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna say it doesn't count. Uh, so just the clothes? Mm-hmm. Do I have a phone in my pocket?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_04:Ah nothing in your pockets. Nothing in your pocket. Can I have my insulin pump? You can have your insulin pump and however much insulin you need.
SPEAKER_03:Get it together. Okay, here we go. So, do you agree to this challenge? I agree. Okay. Um, Brad, we'll start with you. I'm gonna pick a random location. That's the ocean. We're not going there. I love the ocean. That one is on land. Let me take a look to make sure I can actually read it. Just off the coast of Yemen. It's technically in the water, so we can say it doesn't count. Um, but if you're just off the coast of Yemen. I mean, like, it's probably like 20 miles.
SPEAKER_04:Do I have a certain amount of time to get home? You just have to make it. Um, I'm gonna pass on that one.
SPEAKER_03:You're gonna pass on that one? Yeah. Okay, let's find the next one.
SPEAKER_02:Where is that?
SPEAKER_03:Very far north in Quebec. Uh you are south of the Roggan River.
unknown:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03:Can I take a fly rod, please, Michael?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, sure. I'll do it. You want to take that one?
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Alright. Hopefully you can make it home. I just want to fly fish. I think you need to find a branch. For the record, just so that everyone understands, I'm like just using a uh random random.org slash geographic dash coordinates is the website I'm using to find these these random locations. Um and on the map that's built into the website, it's like if it's a country that speaks a different language than English, it it's written in that language, so I have to open it in Google Maps. It's a whole thing. I couldn't come up with a smoother way to do this. But anyway, so Brad takes that challenge. He's gonna be very far north in the uh um, I forget what they call them. They're not regions. What do they call them? Province.
SPEAKER_04:Provinces yeah, the province of um so but am I going in a month? A month from today. You have you have a month to prepare. Oh, I'm not going then. Oh, okay. I'm not going to Northern Quebec in the middle of December.
SPEAKER_03:All right, then let's see what your third location's gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:But you can wear you can wear coats.
SPEAKER_03:Northern Quebec?
SPEAKER_00:But you would have coats.
SPEAKER_04:You're gonna stick with it or do you No, I'm passing. Okay. I would love to go to Northern Quebec and go fly fishing, but in like July. So now I'm f now I'm toast, right? So now you are I should have taken it. I should have stayed on the same continent.
SPEAKER_03:You should have. You are in northern Tibet now. It looks very it looks like a desert.
SPEAKER_04:Did Tibet ever get freed? Um no, I'm on like Mount Everest, bro. And I'm dead. Probably.
unknown:Gosh dang it.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Well, I made a mistake.
SPEAKER_03:But you know what? You died in probably one of the top ten places to bleed out. Who says I'm bleeding out? What? I don't know. It's just it's just like a it's like a meme. It like it started because, you know, like um the Blade Runner movie that Ryan Gosling is in, he bleeds out, and people have like, you know.
SPEAKER_04:And that's like a thing now.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, Rob, do you accept the challenge?
SPEAKER_00:And this economy for only a million? You have to say yes to the podcast. What am I gonna do yes to the fill my tank up with gas? I don't get out of bed for less than three million. Uh yeah, I'll take the challenge. Let's do it, let's do it.
SPEAKER_03:Great. Wow. Oh, this looks nice. This looks nice for you. Um wow, this is but this is very far north. You are um in Yukon, Canada. Okay, and it's a month from now. And you know what? Lucky, lucky you, you are about five miles from Highway 4 in Yukon. Yeah, I think you should take it.
SPEAKER_00:I take that. I'm taking it. And I'm wearing a coat, the biggest coat money can buy. No, the biggest coat my money can buy, so not North Face, something cheaper. Uh, and then big old gloves. And I'm gonna can I sew granola bars onto the inside of my coat and still be transported? Because that would be my hack. You gave him a fly fishing rod. Yeah, sure. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, Tibet is not free, still part of China. Um also, southern Tibet is where Mount Everest would be. So I'm not on Mount Everest. I like my chances a little bit better, but uh I don't even know which way I would go. Would I go east or west? It was nice knowing you.
SPEAKER_03:That is such a good question. I'm really not sure. That is hilarious. I typed in Tibet in Google Maps and it took me to a place called Old Tibet in Boulder, Colorado.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, old Tibet.
SPEAKER_04:All right, thanks for another uh episode of Mic'ed Up where you kill me off.
SPEAKER_03:That's not what I'm trying to do. Um this isn't a real life challenge. So I'm sorry you're not gonna make a million dollars.
SPEAKER_04:It's okay.
unknown:All right.
SPEAKER_04:Do you want to go talk to Michelle now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Let's go talk to Michelle. Great.
SPEAKER_04:Michelle Cruz, welcome back. You're back. Thank you. I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Um, your last episode that we did about middle school ministry was so much fun that I decided we were gonna, you know, just run it back and uh talk about some things uh that are going on in your ministry. So we're talking about separating junior high and high school students for programming today. Can you start by just telling us what the student ministry programming looks like for you guys?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, of course. So we have programming on Wednesday nights called midweek with no vowels. I know you love that one, Brian.
SPEAKER_04:MDWK.
SPEAKER_06:And we uh doors open at 6. So everyone's welcome to come. Um, but at 6:30, middle school goes upstairs um in the loft, which is actually where I'm at, um, in the loft, and we do um like uh we call it yap and dap. Okay. I call it yap and dap, where we just like it's loud, it's crazy, we're asking silly questions. Um, worship starts, there's a sermon, and then they go to small groups. Once middle school is dismissed to small groups, we bring up high school. Uh it's more low-key vibe, right? Low-fi music, chill, and we just like do the same thing basically. High school gets one more song and their message is a little bit longer, and then they go to small groups, and then at that point, middle school's done with small groups, they go home, and then it's just high school hanging out uh and doing small groups.
SPEAKER_04:So one crew is in small groups while the other is in like their large group, and then they switch. Is it am I getting that right?
SPEAKER_06:Basically, yeah. When middle school is in service, high schoolers are downstairs in the gym hanging out.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, they're hanging out. Got it. Um okay. Um, what about Sundays? Do we do anything on Sundays?
SPEAKER_06:Not yet. Okay. Where are we in? Not yet.
SPEAKER_04:Breaking news.
SPEAKER_06:We are in the middle of construction. Uh so the building I'm in uh used to be just the only building we had on campus. Um, and we are reconfiguring our downstairs offices into more classrooms because we are just growing so crazy, which is like what a blessing that is. Um, and so we're waiting for those rooms to be finished so middle school can meet up here in the loft because right now our preteen services meet in here on Sundays. So we're just kind of just waiting for our middle school service to start, hopefully in January. We will see. Um, but that's currently Wednesday is the only programming we have for students.
SPEAKER_04:I'm actually so glad that we started here. Um because everything you're saying, we're doing growth things, we have to be super creative with the timing of how we program high school and junior high, and like we're switching places and using the same space and trying to coordinate all these million things, and we don't have room to do anything on Sundays, so we do everything on Wednesday nights. And it's like it would be a trillion times easier for you to be like youth group is on Wednesday night, and this is how it goes, and for everybody to be together. Um, so I think it's really cool that you're actually in a position where uh you don't have unlimited resources when it comes to space, and you have to actually be really intentional about making this happen um at Summit. So uh why is all of that hassle worth it to you, Michelle?
SPEAKER_06:Well, we feel like it's very important that middle school and high school uh have their separate times, their separate moments, uh, for a lot of reasons. A lot of them, or one of them is um attention spans of middle schoolers and high schools are different. Sometimes they can be the same. Um, but also like developmentally, um, middle schoolers are just figuring out how to like um abstract thinking is very like their brains are almost there, so it's more like concrete thinking of like A plus B equals C. Um, and high schools are um have a more abstract way of thinking. And so teaching something to a sixth grader versus a 12th grader is gonna be look way different because just developmentally, they're like a sixth grader is not the same as a 12th grader, nor is their life stage. Um, and so we've just found a lot of value in separating them because like my message to middle schoolers is gonna look different than high schoolers. My examples are gonna be different. How I explain the scripture is gonna be different um because they just might not like middle schoolers, it might just go over their heads. Um at the same time, you don't want it to be dumped down for the high schoolers because they probably want to tell you this, but they probably they want to be challenged in thinking. And if it's just like spoon-fed to them, that's they're not gonna be challenged, they're not gonna feel like it's for them and they're just not gonna come back. Um, which you know, it doesn't have to be my church specifically, as long as they're plugged into a church, that's what matters. Um, but yeah, we just find the value in separation. We did used to do it together, um, but also our numbers have grown so much that having like 200 plus people in this room is gross. It just it's smelly. Um it's disgusting and it's hot no matter how far we crank the AC, it's gross.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I get it.
SPEAKER_06:We've tried it and we're like never again. Yeah, it's awful.
SPEAKER_04:So um you also said something about a preteen service, which I'm sure made my friend Rob's ears perk up a little bit, um, if you could see them under his headphones. Uh can't see him. But um I think it's really cool that you guys subdivide that out as well. I think a lot of churches are kind of starting to do that. And with you having an emphasis on junior high, um I would think that some of the kids like are you involved in conversations about like what that transition looks like? And what have you seen the value of like having that preteen service or the preteen intentional programming? Like how have you seen that affect the students that come up into your ministry in the junior high?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. So actually, um, I started the preteen ministry here in this last October, two Octobers ago. And because I saw um, you know, our fourth and fifth graders in kid service, they were standing up against the wall, they were bored, they're not interacting. And I was like, hey, have y'all noticed this? And then leadership was like, Cool, go start a ministry. Like, oh, is that is that all? Oh okay. Uh so I did that for um a year, a little more than a year. Um in January, we um I was able to um pass that off to um to a couple here at church who are also teachers. So they just do it like super part-time. Um but yes, because of that, um, there's a lot of our now seventh graders um I've gotten to know because they were in preteen ministry with me, um, which I think being in both ministries has helped a lot in the transition. Um and what also helps our transition is in the second semester, so the winter spring semester, our fifth graders are invited once a month to midweek to kind of like slowly like experience what it is. And then the leaders of the preteen industry come on Wednesdays and lead their small group um just to be like, we you know us, we are safe. Um, there's a lot of kids in this room, and they sit in the uh the middle school message with us, and then they have yeah, they have their own small group. Um, and that slowly kind of like builds um just like rapport with me and Adam, our other student pastor, and then we also invite them to camp as well, and so that also eases like the scaredness of going um eight hours away, away from mom and dad, um, because they have some trusted adults um as well. And so, because of that, our I feel like our transition is relatively seamless. Um, we do lose some kids because they don't want to go to big church yet, which is why I'm excited for our middle school ministry uh to start on Sundays to help like ease that as well.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Rob, you talk to a lot of preteen people. Um I'm I I I literally have no guess for the question that I'm about to ask you. No, you could say anything and I would believe you.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_04:How has um how have you seen this concept of like developing a preteen ministry like what Michelle is talking about? Um is that being prioritized more now in churches than it was before? Are you seeing the number of those preteen ministries kind of grow? I know obviously as a superstar person who programs age intentionally for preteens, that like I would think you would find some importance in that. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know. What do you think? Uh from my standpoint, yes, I think it's been growing. Uh and if not growing in a specific, like I have a specific separate service or ministry for preteens, it's at least growing in awareness. Yeah. Like people, if you're a middle school person, right? Like Michelle, like you know that there's just there's a huge difference between your sixth graders and your eighth graders. And superstar for our preteen, we categorize them for fifth and sixth grade. Um, but even the maturity that happens in those years is like crazy. Like uh you can be having an amazing message, and the eighth graders are like just zoned in, and then the sixth graders are off thinking about Roblox and Minecraft. Like, you know what I mean? Like you're like, okay, I lost them because there's even such a big gap there. But if you go into what I would say has been the typical like youth children's programming, which is typically like one through five or K through five, uh, you'll know that the fifth graders, if you're just telling them stories, which is really typical, nothing wrong with that. But when their aims more towards your first, second, third grade level, like those fifth graders are done. Like they just want out, like they're you have lost them so much. So um whether or not that results in people making it an actual separate complete service. I have seen that happen more. There's at least, I think, more awareness of it, and just developmentally where they're at, and people trying to put something separate in their programming for preteens, which is really exciting. I obviously love that, and I'm a massive proponent of it. So yes and yes to answer.
SPEAKER_04:I agree. Um, another observation that I'm gonna let you guys challenge me on a little bit. I feel like the um The like emotional distance and the uh like mental capacity distance between a uh fourth grader that's kind of where we'll start since we're doing preteen, junior high, and high school, and a 12th grader is growing. Like I feel like young kids are feeling younger to me, and older students are feeling older to me the more time that goes on. Is that true or am I like misinterpreting something? Like, has that been your experience, Michelle?
SPEAKER_06:Uh yeah, like I could see that. I think part of it, um, I think social media has a huge role in that, where I feel like our now middle school high schoolers are seemingly more mature because of um social media, because whether they're on it or their parents are on it. But I also feel like this, like, like I have a niece who's five. I think this kind of like next generation of parents um are more aware of screen time and are less like my niece gets like maybe an hour. Um, because and I know some fourth graders who go crazy if they have too much screen time. Um, and so I feel like because of the more like awareness, this like kind of new crop of kids are are a little bit younger because um, you know, hopefully they're not on social media as an elementary school or they're on less screen time. And so because of that, I think, yeah, they do come off their maturity levels are younger, which honestly I appreciate because the the amount of things that I hear from like a preteen's mouth, I'm like, how do you know that? Like, why do you know this? Um, and so I think it's just like not that this is a parenting podcast, nor am I a parent, but I interact with a lot of them and students that I feel like a lot of it it is on the parents of um their like screen time intake and what what they're watching because well, yeah, real quick.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like that's swinging in a good direction too. Um, of course I'm gonna forget what book it was a few years ago. Um gosh dang it. It was a big deal. This is an original thought to me. Maybe producer Michael can look it up. Um, or maybe you'll know that talked about how like kids are overprotected in real life and underprotected online, like as the digital age was like coming into focus, it was like it kind of like what you're talking about. It's like, how does this fourth grader know that word? Like what in the world? And realizing that students had access to things online, that no matter what protections you put in place or think you have in place, like that they are going to be able to access and and pick up on. And I do feel like maybe not because of that book, but because of kind of the the ethos that led to that book, we're seeing a lot more of what you're talking about where parents are like, okay, we're capping screen time, we're really heavily monitoring what it is that our kid can um see and intake. And maybe that's why I'm starting to feel um a little bit of that like younger kids feeling younger again thing. But um my point in saying all of that was like, we did you find it?
SPEAKER_03:I think it's the anxious generation.
SPEAKER_04:The anxious generation. Thank you, Pichael.
SPEAKER_06:I was thinking purpose-driven life or I kiss dating goodbye.
SPEAKER_04:I kissed dating goodbye. First mention on the podcast. My first guess was blue like jazz. Yeah. Here's what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say something controversial right now. I reread Blue Like Jazz about a year and a half ago.
SPEAKER_03:Did it hold up?
SPEAKER_04:It holds up. Really? Oh it actually it actually does.
SPEAKER_03:I really thought you were gonna go the opposite way with that.
SPEAKER_04:Um I kissed dating goodbye, have not reread, does not hold up. Didn't age well. Didn't age well. I didn't read it.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and this is not what this is about, but I'm ready to hear it. Why would I want to feel a book that feels like an autobiography? You know, just based on the title alone. I don't know. I've never read the book.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's a joke. It's a it was it was self-deprecating we all got it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yeah. Um that guy's not a Christian anymore. Yeah, that is correct to him. I think that's correct. That's just right. That makes me sad. Um what were we talking about?
SPEAKER_03:The anxious generation over protected in real life, underprotected online.
SPEAKER_04:All of that to say, it makes this conversation, no matter what side of it you come down on, um, all the more important. I do want to kind of throw out um the the most compelling counter argument to what you're saying that I've heard, and just kind of like uh ha let's have a conversation about it. I feel like, well, first of all, I feel like most of the people who have junior high and high school together um have to. It's like we can't, we don't have the space or the time. A lot of times it's smaller churches. Um, though there are there are some churches that like CIY has talked to about doing our programming, and they will not come to CIY because it's like, no, we want our junior high and high schoolers together, large churches uh at camp. And a lot of the reasoning behind that is they feel like there is a like take the take the intellectual piece out of it for a second, take the emotional piece out of it for a second, but there's a relational value that comes with like a junior high student having kind of an example to look up to, and a high school student feeling a sense of responsibility um for kind of accompanying these junior high students on their faith journey, so to speak. Um what do you think about that? I was gonna try to find a better way to craft the question, and I just my brain today is mush.
SPEAKER_06:So that's okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Um, I definitely see that. Um I think that having at least for my church, having a middle school service where high schoolers can volunteer, I think that sets up a great time to have those relationships. Um I think they are important, but at like almost at what cost of a message or smaller of time, whatever it might be, specifically for or geared toward a specific age group, I think you might lose that. And like, yeah, you might challenge your your middle schoolers more and you uh which could be good. You could also lose them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Same thing with high schoolers, if it's not engaging, then you could lose them as well. But I think there's other opportunities that you could do for middle school high schoolers to have that type of um like mentor relationship. And not that I don't want to claim it as an excuse. I don't know these churches, um, but I think um just try not to step on toes.
SPEAKER_04:But uh just like at what cost. You're a better person than me. I'm always just like full send. Here we go. I've never gotten any hate mail, so that's surprising. Not because of the podcast, anyway. No, just regular hate mail. But yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_06:Been making notes. Um but like at kind of like at what cost is it like yeah, I think it's less work to have a combined group. Um, but at your own expense as a youth pastor or at the expense of students having something that is made for them that where they feel seen and known and loved by um people that are in their age group going through those same things. Um versus like I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying. I know what I'm saying, but I don't know how to say it.
SPEAKER_04:I I think we I think I hear you. I think I hear your heart. Um that it's just like you can get the wins of that. Like you can you can create the relationships between high school and junior high students without actually taking that step of saying, okay, our programming is going to happen together. Like you're saying I can get the wins because I can have high school students volunteer dream my junior high youth group night or whatever. Now that's not the case for you now. You can't have your high school students right now um volunteer. But like one of your one of the perks of doing what you're doing and kind of launching this junior high service is saying, okay, I can actually pull some high school students in here and maybe create a little bit more FaceTime between them and um the junior high students, which is really cool. One thing you said that I think is really important is you talked about just like the amount of work, and I I do think it is super important for pastors to be mindful of of the amount of work that they're doing because it can be really easy to like get on the wrong side of that pretty quick. But um you also I love that you have this couple that's like running your preteen ministry now. And um talk about what that was like, like identifying them and training and equipping them and really empowering them to say, hey, these people don't work here, they're teachers, but um we believe in you and your ability to kind of facilitate this experience for fourth, fifth, and sixth graders, or four fourth and fifth graders. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_06:That's okay. Sixth graders right now are included in preteens.
SPEAKER_04:I was right. I'm on sorry.
SPEAKER_06:Great. Um we caught four four fifty-six. Um eventually these six will go away. Um so sixth graders have both there in both kids and um middle school, technically. Um but yeah, we um I kind of reached a point because I was doing students, young adults and preteens. I was like, I can't, yeah, can't do it. Like I'm I'm getting burnt out.
SPEAKER_04:I'm which good for you for having the self-awareness to actually like say that, you know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it was it was a lot. Um and so uh yeah, they reached the point. It's like, okay, we're they're we're growing in um our fourth through sixth graders. Um, we're you know, try to look for other people to take this over. And we did like applications and stuff, of course. Knowing I think it's like maybe 10 hours a week. Really, it's just the weekends because we have a Saturday service, so it's weekends and then like office hours if they need to. Um, but uh one of our teachers is an elementary school teacher, or sorry, the people who are doing it, she is an elementary school teacher. He is a special needs high school teacherslash track coach. So they already love kids. Um, and they just have a heart for kids, they have a heart for ministry, and so um, you know, they applied and they're like uh leadership was like, you know, talking, and I was like, oh my gosh, these people would be so great. Um and here's like the reasons why. Um, and so it just kind of like I mean, it worked out because of the Lord. Um, but because of that, it was just like, hey, this is like they were in um preachings for a little bit of like this is what I've been doing, but this is bare bones because this is all that I can really handle. Um, this ministry has a lot more um opportunities and for you to grow in different ways. Like this is me trying my best with the amount of time I have. And so um they uh have been just it's been really great. Um, we're using uh orange curriculum. This the kids are using orange curriculum, um, and that's been really great too. I was using, I was I started my I just did my own lessons, um, did my own curriculum, which I don't know why I did that to myself, but um but I did it. It was not it was fine. Um, but I was talking to my mom who used to be the kids past my kids pastor growing up, and she's like, Orange has like old videos on YouTube for free. And I was like, great, so that's what we did. Um I felt like a a bad teacher or a substitute teacher of like we're just watching a movie. Um, but we had intentional small groups and it was good, and so being able to be like, I don't know, this is what we do, and they just kind of took it. Now we now we pay for orange, so it's a lot more updated and better, and everything's you know ready to go. Um, but they've just taken it and it's been really great. They've added a worship element, and the small groups are really great, and it's just like grown a lot because of their just dedication to it. And um, granted, yeah, they are their parents, they're they have a full-time job, um, but they're just very they just have excelled so well um in that area, and just yeah, the ministry's grown so much.
SPEAKER_04:That's awesome. Um, I'm gonna change gears a little bit, Rob. Do you have anything, any thoughts, any questions, anything bouncing around in your brain?
SPEAKER_00:I have I have a question for you. Oh, I love uh so you're talking about starting your middle school ministry soon and how there are different phases. Uh what are you planning to do different for that service? I don't know if maybe I'm jumping the gun, you guys haven't got that far, but do you have something like a different way that you're setting it up? Or like I know space might be different, but what's going to be different to like cater to the age range that differs from your already existing high school program?
SPEAKER_06:No, that's a great question. Um, we plan on taking what we do on Wednesdays for middle school and doing that on Sundays. Um, so it'll be worship, a lesson. And instead of like intentional small groups, it'll more like be, hey, we have this many people, we have this many leaders, split up accordingly, um, and have like a light discussion about it. And then we still want them here on Wednesdays, um, but on Wednesdays it'll be more like let's play a game and then have really intentional small groups about um the lesson on Sunday. And so um hopefully that would encourage um them to come because we have a lot of students that we only see them um on weekend or excuse me, we only see them on Wednesdays because they are friends of kids who are plugged in. And so our hope and prayer and goal is that we see them both on Sundays and um on Wednesdays just to capture um capture them coming, like kind of almost like building up a routine of coming to church on Sundays. Um, because unless they're like their parents, I'm so sorry if you can hear that. I don't know what's happening.
SPEAKER_04:It's fine.
SPEAKER_06:It's cool.
SPEAKER_04:It's funny fun to imagine what's going on, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Just stuff. Um gosh. Sorry, Michael, you have to edit this part. Um it's all right.
SPEAKER_03:I'm just gonna leave it as is. Staying in.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you. I appreciate it. Authenticity.
SPEAKER_03:That's what we're about here.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, or he's okay. Um, anyways, that's what we're doing. Um having uh a more uh intentional thing on Sundays because we know we see a lot of students um here on campus, but they just go to big church and we just feel like like they might be totally loving it, but I didn't love it as a middle schooler. Uh and so yeah, it's kind of just like capture and be like, hey, we actually have programming for you specifically. Um we'd love to see you back on Wednesdays um and just try to get them here kind of like as much as possible. Um, because well, it's important.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Go. So Sunday, are you doing like what I would say typical? Like, are you guys having worship and you're doing small groups too, or are you only gonna do small groups on that Wednesday night when you have like a recap?
SPEAKER_06:Yes. Got it.
SPEAKER_04:All of the above.
SPEAKER_01:All the above.
SPEAKER_00:Can I do one more question?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, man. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm along for the ride.
SPEAKER_04:You're in charge.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't want to steal the show. Hey, you did.
SPEAKER_00:I get you didn't steal it, I gave it to you. Thanks, buddy. Uh what do you see as okay, let me preface this question. All parts of a service are important, but where do you feel like your students grow the most? And like what do they hang on to the most uh in your service? Like if you had to choose one element and you're like, okay, from now on, service will only be this one thing. Like, what do you see as the thing that they're really grasping onto the most each week?
SPEAKER_04:And the answer can be different for different age groups. Sorry. 100%.
SPEAKER_00:I should have given you an age category.
SPEAKER_01:Why don't you do middle school and then high school? That way you can. And preteen.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. Preteens, I know.
SPEAKER_01:Can someone on this podcast stand up for preteens? Would anybody talk about preteens for once? Oh my gosh. Sorry.
SPEAKER_06:No, it's fine. I know y'all are joking, but I'm an Enneagram nine, and that was conflict.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that was a lot for you.
SPEAKER_02:Y'all figured that out for your two.
SPEAKER_00:It was just a bit. I'm a nine two. We were just going with it.
SPEAKER_02:You can't be a nine-wing two. It's not how we see it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. We cannot. I don't want to talk about the Enneagram on this podcast. Enneagram. Oh my gosh. Hey, if you could choose one part for each age group.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, wait a second. Would it be fun? I've been thinking about what we're going to do next season on the podcast, Michelle. Valued listener, I'm asking.
SPEAKER_06:Really?
SPEAKER_04:Um the and this idea just popped into my head. What if we had like one person from every number type on the podcast? And it's like youth ministry as a one, youth ministry as a two, youth ministry as a three. Would that be fun?
SPEAKER_06:Only if I get dibs.
SPEAKER_04:Would you listen to all of them or just the nine one? I would skip.
SPEAKER_06:No, I'd listen to all of them because even in like working with different Enneagrams in the workspace is important as well, whether you're in ministry youth ministry or not. Like my lead pastor, he's an eight. My counterpartner, he's a nine. So like we have all these other, you know, numbers. So it's great to like kind of figure out how to work alongside of them. Um, both in a workspace as a volunteer, um, as a parent. Like, I think it's a great idea, Brad.
SPEAKER_04:I'll think about it. What'd you say?
SPEAKER_01:No, this is your show.
SPEAKER_06:I know a lot of people are against it, but I think it's if it's used as a tool and not an excuse, I think Annie Mgram is great.
SPEAKER_04:That'll preach. I like never mind. Um you asked a great question, and I I carelessly and thoughtlessly took us down a different path. So I want you to ask it again. That was great. Because oh yeah, I know. Most important element of a of a program for each age group, preteen junior high, high school.
SPEAKER_06:For high school. Um, I, you know, I would just I have always assumed it would be small groups, but more recently it has been um the sermons. Um, you know, kids are crying when we're done because of a realization or you know, whatever. Um, and they are missing small groups because they're talking to a leader about what they heard. Um that's been the past couple weeks here. Um for middle schoolers, I would say small groups, um, because just like being able to either verbally process out loud or like hear other people do that, and or just really just like relationships through conversations with their peers through their um small group leaders. I think that's where they um really kind of thrive in that area. Um preteens. I feel like on the drive home with a parent is probably the best. That's such a great answer.
SPEAKER_04:That's a really good answer. That is a really, really good answer. Oh and the fact that you get like that that is part of the program. You know what I mean? Like that's something that we have to be thinking about. That's a really good answer. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you. If you have any positions opening, let me know. Um just kidding for all those who I know I'm not leaving. Okay. Um, unless the Lord tells me to, then I'm open to it. Anyways, I think for preteens, hearing it, you know, watching a video about it, having a discussion about it, they're still thinking, hopefully, like their brains are again still developing. And so I think having those conversations with a parent of like, hey, what did you learn? Or knowing what they learned and be like, you learned about these things, can we talk about it more? Um, on the drive home later that night, um, I think is really kind of where they shine of being able to like process and talk it out and kind of really like understand what their lesson was about.
SPEAKER_04:Did you end of end of line of questioning? Yeah. Or okay, great. That was great.
SPEAKER_01:Um clip that last part. That's like the headliner.
SPEAKER_04:It was awesome. It was very awesome. Um you said clip that, and I just that's the wrong that was the wrong phrase. What no, it was the right phrase, but why are you bringing your brain rot language onto my podcast? Clip that chat. Okay. Um this is such a good episode.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, Rob, um I'm glad that you asked those questions. Pull yourself together, man.
SPEAKER_01:I'm back. I'm back.
SPEAKER_04:Um sorry. Glad that you asked those questions because it's like it it it highlights the need to, like, if that's true. If and I believe honestly that these the answers to those questions might be different in different contexts. Like within your church, I believe what you're saying is true. Someone else who lives in a completely different part of the country and caters to a completely different uh demographic of students might have a different answer, and that's great. But no matter what, being able to say, like, okay, my high schoolers are really responding to teaching. How do I program around teaching? Okay, my junior high students are really responding to small groups. How do I program to emphasize small groups? Okay, my preteen students, et cetera, et cetera. You know, it just kind of like continues to feed into this conversation about intentionality, not just in a way that's like, oh, I can talk to a high school student in a different way than I can talk to a preteen, but they are actually like creating different experiences based on how they encounter Jesus and and what they need in order to kind of take that next step and and following the Lord, I think is just a really, really cool thing. Um I I want to um have one more little kind of kind of side conversation here. Um it's still about what we're talking about, it's not about the Enneagram, I promise. Um But uh over the course of our conversation, I might offend you when I ask this question, and if I do, you can say so, and that's okay, but I'm gonna ask it. Um over the course of our conversation, I feel like a couple of different times you have said things that indicated that maybe uh you have a personal standard that by dividing out the programming you were not able to meet. Um like the specific example is like the preteen. You were talking about preteen ministry, and you're like, I d I show a video and we do this, and that's kind of what we can do right now. Um I feel like it's possible that there are youth pastors out there who want to split up, you know, their group, and feel like maybe they're getting close to a time where that would be a necessity. And they're sitting in their office thinking, okay, my programming for junior high and high school students is like an eight right now on my own personal scale. I feel really good about where it's at. If I split this up, I am not going to be able to create like the high school, they can keep the eight, it's pretty much gonna stay the same. Uh if you if you have mixed programming, most people will cater to the older people in the room because they would rather people miss something that's over their head than check out because of something that's but that's beneath them. So high schoolers, you get to keep the eight. I'm not gonna create this junior high program. Um, and I d I don't think that with the time, with the bandwidth, with the resources that I have, that that can be an eight. So I am going to not. I'm gonna just keep my I'm gonna keep this where I have it uh because I feel really good about where it's at. I feel like I hear you say um that in this respect, when it comes to your context, you're kind of saying, we really believe that something is better than nothing. Um we really believe that like creating programming for preteens, creating programming for junior high, creating programming for high school is important enough that even if right now, in this moment in time, we have space constraints, we have personnel restraints, we have whatever restraints that are gonna keep us from being able to like hit home runs, we are okay with going up there and hitting singles and doing what we can do. Um so this is a very, very long way of of kind of asking um this question. Um what would you say? I'm just curious how you would like encourage somebody who's thinking about this and on the fence and really perceives that there's gonna be like a drop-off in quality if they're taking their limited amount of time and saying, okay, instead of using my time to do one thing, I'm now gonna be using my time to do two things, and that's gonna cause some suffering when it comes to quality. So uh I might have just made zero sense in in any words that I said. I don't know. Do you want to respond to that?
SPEAKER_06:First off, I actually am offended, um just in a general sense.
SPEAKER_04:So you don't want to work here anymore? Cool, fine.
SPEAKER_06:No way they do. Um well, I think yeah, like you said, it's different for every situation. There, I know there's some youth pastors who um I know a couple weeks ago, maybe it was a month, I listened a couple weeks ago. You had someone on here who was like volunteering and he's like the youth pastor, and he has a another full-time job.
SPEAKER_04:Jordan Francis, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yes. So I was like, dang, that's wild. Um, what like that's a lot of dedication to the Lord. And I was really refreshing to hear uh to hear that. And so I know he's gonna be a lot more limited than someone who is full-time. Um so take this with a grain of salt or a rock. I don't know what the opposite of a grain of salt is, but um like it is, I think it is different for every situation.
SPEAKER_04:Um timing, buildings, is it one of those like pink Himalayan salt lamps?
SPEAKER_06:Dude, I have one. It's great.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know if it's that the opposite of a grain of salt or like a mountain.
SPEAKER_06:I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Are there mountains of salt?
SPEAKER_06:No, but it's big.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway.
SPEAKER_06:If you know, call us at ci.com 417 m.ci.com.
SPEAKER_04:That's where you can send it. Yeah, sure. All right, so what the opposite m hester, yeah. Okay, sorry I interrupted you. You said something and it really just I could not stop thinking about it.
SPEAKER_06:That's fine. Uh Take it with a lot of importance or not at all. How about that?
SPEAKER_04:That's great.
SPEAKER_06:Um, I think for a youth pastor who is a volunteer. Um, I think, and I know his church is like growing, he's trying to do more. Um I think sometimes you just have to do what is possible for your own sanity, your mental health, your Sabbath, your time with your family. Um, I think you have to do what's best. Um and see whatever do be do whatever you're able to do. Um, I think for I think kind of like the church I grew up in was we had maybe 30 kids in middle school and high school. Um, we still were able to separate, but it was in the same hour and we were literally classrooms right next to each other. Um, but there was still that, excuse me, and then in I think of like a larger scale, kind of the church I'm at. Um I think an encouragement would be um maybe talk to your students, talk to your high schoolers. If it's like, hey, do you feel do you like having middle schoolers around? Because if not, and that's like a a con of coming, because you have to deal with either your sibling or just someone, you know, smelly boys who don't know how to take showers or a deodorant. If that's a con of you not coming to church, okay, well, like let's figure that out. Or middle schoolers, like, do you feel intimidated by having older students in the room where you're nervous and you're scared you're all mess up or do something dumb? Okay, let's like let's figure that out. I think sometimes too, like there might be middle schoolers and high schoolers who don't care because that's just the culture that they've built, which I think is great. Um, but I think sometimes it might just come down to preference of the student, of like just physically being around students, um, either a lot younger or a lot older. Um, so I think having um the opinion of um students is something to consider. I don't think it you base off everything off of their opinion. They their brains aren't fully developed, they don't know. Um, but I think at the end of the day, there is um just a lot of value in the separation. And so maybe sit down and figure out, okay, maybe who can lead middle school while I lead high school, or vice versa, or can I in the same hour and a half time block, I teach two less. That's what we do. Like one person teaches twice on a Wednesday. It's like, is that is that physically possible? Um or it's like, hey, you guys go outside and play a game while high school learns and we switch, or you know, I think there's lots of different ways of doing that. Um but it's hard because it's like uh words. Um just trying to figure out okay, at what point is it most important for students to be separated? I think the other half is what are you physically able to do without getting burnt out, without um losing yourself to um to make this happen? I think it's kind of like that gray area of meeting in the middle and compromising of like how can you how can we both how can I make this happen for my students, but also not lose myself, have a Sabbath, have time with family, um, the thing, things like that. And so um I think every church is gonna be different, every um culture, every part of this, you know, part of the country, it's all different. And so whatever it's like, I know there's a lot of like what we're this is off topic. I'm really sorry, but like what we're facing right now is our students won't come to events outside of Wednesday, no matter how cool they are. And so we're like, okay, but there's I know there's other churches, they only kids only come to the fun stuff, and so it's like okay, you just have to figure out what that culture looks like um and see what um is gonna be best for your student. I obviously this is something I think is important, and so it's like do your best to make this happen, but I'm not in your shoes, I don't know where you're at, I don't know your schedule, um, your building your the spaces and places, things like that. Um I just see a lot of value in um having that separated time, and so maybe just try your best, get wise counsel.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Um and I know some leadership is like so pro students, I know there's other leadership, they're like, you're still here. Um I have been blessed with our three of our uh three, two, one, a number of them out of the three, at least two of them used to be youth pastors, and so there's that like heart for students, and we've I've like really been blessed by that, but I've also uh the church I was growing up in, I didn't really feel that. And so I know that can be hard as well, but try to see just like why it's council um network with churches around your um your city and just kind of figure out maybe what works for them. Um yeah, all that to say, just try your hardest.
SPEAKER_04:Try your hardest. No, I think um that puts kind of an ice old bow on our conversation. And like when I pull all of the really great things that you've said together, um, it's kind of like, hey, this is worth it for us. Um you have had to be creative in how you've figured out what that looks like, including uh to your point about not overextending yourself, like getting other people paying them for 10 hours a week um to to help facilitate. Um but I do love that you guys were willing to say, like, hey, this isn't gonna be this isn't the ideal yet. We're gonna continue to work toward the ideal, um, especially when you have more space. But like just getting students around other students who are their age where they can like fully be themselves, um, has been a win for you guys, I think is uh just a really encouraging thing. So Michelle, think you're great. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for chatting about this. Thanks for being a rock solid youth pastor.
SPEAKER_06:Stop.
SPEAKER_00:It's true.
SPEAKER_06:Well, I love CIY with all my heart, so I love being able to do anything I can to help. Well, we love y'all don't do mailbag anymore.
SPEAKER_04:I know. So do you want to ask a mailbag question right now for old time's sake?
SPEAKER_06:Wow. I don't remember any of the ones I asked. Actually, no, wait, there was one I thought about the other day, and I was like, well, too bad they don't they don't do that no more.
SPEAKER_04:But you can't remember. Do you okay well on that note?
SPEAKER_06:Oh wait, wait, wait, I remembered. Um the things y'all the thing y'all do on Halloween for all the staff kids.
SPEAKER_04:Scare not share. I mean share not scare. We share, we don't scare. Right.
SPEAKER_06:I mean is there is there's a share.
SPEAKER_05:That was not a that was not a question.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Tell me about it. Will you please tell me about it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Rob's one did one of your kids win an award?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, not this year. Oh last year. Last year. Yeah. We all went as Lord of the Rings characters. Oh wow. The kids are poppets. We won. Highlight of my life, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, so I think I think um Share Not Scare started originally as just uh like a fun little, hey, everybody have candy by your desks.
SPEAKER_04:And when I when I started, it was fully a work day.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I would I had a bowl of candy at my desk, and kids would come around and say trick or treat, and I would give them a races cup, and that was that. And they would move around.
SPEAKER_03:I think that was 2019.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. That was 2018 and 2019.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Yeah. Oh, you and then for me. Yeah. And then in 2020, we did more trunk or treat style. And then the stakes raised the coronavirus. Yeah. Um and there was like a sort of competition that was set up that whoever um like whoever had the best decorated trunk, because we were doing literal like car trunks. Um uh whoever had the best decorated trunk um would win some kind of prize. And I think it was voted on by probably the kids. Um and then from there it has evolved and escalated to the point where now it's we uh we team up based on wings in the office. Um and and it it is fully competition based, or at least it hasn't for the last several weeks.
SPEAKER_04:But here's the thing there is one wing in the building that I will not give the gratification of naming. Yeah, yeah. And they sweat over this thing. They do. It is so pathetic. They went too far. Well, they went too far. They tried too hard. They went so far last year that they had to put like guardrails in place this year. Yes, where it's like you can't start decorating until the day before. Yep. Because they were like oh gosh.
SPEAKER_03:They were spend yes, yeah, yeah. We're not outing anyone. They I didn't say a wing. We won't say I didn't say a wing.
SPEAKER_00:It rhymes with schmest. Um tried so hard. It's more schmest uh so far, but in the end, it didn't even matter. Didn't even matter. Yeah, it's just a couple bucks.
SPEAKER_03:Um it's like it's like a lunch. It's like a wing. Literally a lunch.
SPEAKER_04:That's all um No, I think they give you a$100 gift card to split.
SPEAKER_03:It's not like it's like the office. So really you want to work in whatever I want to work in whatever wing has the fewest amount of people. Yeah. Um yeah, and and you know what? This year, my opinion, probably one of the best um share not scares we've had because it was all cute. You know, it was just like nothing fell over the top, in my opinion. It was just like just like, oh wow, it's really cute. Because um, because nobody was like decorating a whole week before. Right.
SPEAKER_06:So I saw yeah, I saw some pictures and I was like, I want to know more about this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Well, now you know, and I can't wait for all the people when this episode comes out in December to hear about our Halloween adventures. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, everybody. Um, but yeah, no, that was a great mailbag question. Thanks, Michelle, as always, for your participation.
SPEAKER_03:Valued listener and valued question askers.
SPEAKER_04:Valued question askers.
SPEAKER_06:I will say I've liked the mic'ed up mic, whatever y'all call it.
SPEAKER_04:I like it too.
SPEAKER_06:Can you mention the no, go ahead, I was done. I was raining for you. No, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04:I just said I was gonna say I had to force Michael to do that. It's true. He was like, I don't want to do this, and I said, but too bad it's happening. Yeah, that's pretty much how it went. And it's been great, right?
SPEAKER_06:Um it has. I've enjoyed you mentioned uh worship circle or the all those old songs. I was like, oh, this is so good. It was great.
SPEAKER_04:It's really good. Wait, did he actually turn you on to it?
SPEAKER_06:Oh, I love it so much.
SPEAKER_04:Because it's a good album. Uh that's great.
SPEAKER_06:I was like, wow, I feel like my childhood is just it's all right here.
SPEAKER_03:It's all happening. It's being it's being brought back and it's being honored. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Amen. Yeah, not as like it brought back, not as a punchline of a joke. Yeah. Which is nice. Yeah. Anyway. All right, Michelle. We've taken up too much of your time and uh really appreciate you in the it's your day off.
SPEAKER_00:Just on your day off.
SPEAKER_04:Well, then we're definitely taking up too much of your time.
SPEAKER_06:I was just at home sewing.
SPEAKER_04:Oh we appreciate you a lot. Take care.
SPEAKER_06:Thanks. Too loo. Thanks, Michelle.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, Rob. It's time. It's time.
SPEAKER_01:It's time for you to add somebody to our wall of honor. So excited.
SPEAKER_00:Who are we doing? For the wall of honor, I have my boy Justin Halleck. He is the upstreet director at Athens Church, as you probably guessed in Athens. He is the man, he is absolutely killing it. Uh, Justin, if you're listening to this, you run an absolutely amazing program, but you do it with humility. You do it super well, you're super organized, blows me away. Um, and fun fact, Justin directed his first superstart last year. I think we're trying to have him back again for more. So why wouldn't you? We we love him. He does an awesome job. So you are on the board of honor.
SPEAKER_04:Uh, fun fact, graduated from high school in 2009, went to Bible college. Uh Justin was the youth pastor at another church in my hometown. And after my freshman year of high school, I called him up and I said, Justin, can I intern for you? I'll do it for free. And he said, Yeah. And I got to hang out with him all summer in 2010. And he's a very important person in my ministry journey, so I'm glad you chose him. I did not know that. Dude, you didn't know that? No. I that's a crazy. I take full credit for us being in Athens Church.
SPEAKER_01:I can't believe that that has happened to you. I did I literally didn't know that. Oh my gosh. That's incredible. Well, now I love him even more. Even more!
SPEAKER_04:Thank you for picking Justin. Also, thank you, Justin, for taking time. Um, it takes a lot of work to mentor somebody, and I appreciate you doing that in my life. Thank you for the work that you're doing at Athens Church. Thanks to Michael. Thanks to Lauren. Thanks to Rob Watson. Thanks to his son Trip. As Gary the Potato. Next week we'll be back. Not next week, in two weeks we'll be back. Uh to wrap up this series, we'll be talking about uh we'll be talking about keeping junior high and high school students together and some of the benefits of that in specific context as well. So uh if you don't want to miss that, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. See you next time.