Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
Bringing together influential voices from the CIY community to walk alongside you in your journey to maintain momentum between the mountaintop experiences of youth ministry.
Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
BTE 5.06 Buying Curriculum vs. Writing Your Own: Part 2 with Mike Branton and Patrick Snow
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What if the fastest way to deeper impact isn’t writing more, but freeing leaders to be with people? We pull back the curtain on our content process and share why we’ve built a central writing model that serves multiple campuses while giving local teams room to adapt. Our north star this summer is Ephesians and the identity of a “kingdom worker”—loved, rescued, changed, and sent. That sending isn’t theoretical: we’re equipping students to share their faith after the event and inviting youth pastors to collect stories that spark courage across their ministries.
We also introduce our mission partner, Con Mis Manos in Matamoros, Mexico, a ministry serving deaf students who often face social isolation and limited access to sign language and education. Their story—told through a new film centered on founder Michelle Zúñiga—threads through the week. Students will see Spanish Sign Language woven into gatherings, even joining prayers led by deaf students. It’s a living picture of global kingdom work and a powerful way to practice generosity that honors dignity and presence over programs.
Why write your own curriculum instead of buying it? We make the case for a blended approach: a central writer crafts clear, biblically grounded outlines, campuses contextualize, and volunteers and students share the teaching load. Video teaches some moments, but we always land live. We also set firm guardrails for AI—useful for brainstorming and visuals, off-limits for theology and spiritual direction. Smaller churches can run the same play by equipping a small content team, elevating student communicators, and keeping every talk simple enough to reproduce. When identity begins in Christ and every message points back to Jesus, students don’t just learn; they move.
If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more leaders find these conversations. Then tell us: how are you sending your students this week?
Hi, I'm Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event, a Youth Ministry podcast presented by Christ and Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. Our guest today is Mike Branton. He is one of the uh central student pastors at Sun Valley Community Church. Uh, they have several locations throughout the Phoenix area. And uh he and my co-host Patrick and I were going to be talking about why uh in their context, buying, or no, that's wrong. Not buying their curriculum, but writing their own curriculum is uh kind of the path that they had chosen to take. Um but before we dig into that, I want to just talk to my good friend, the vice president of content here at Christ in Youth, Patrick Snow. I almost forgot your title. I almost said programming. That's okay. That's all right. It's not right. Yeah, no worries. I want to give people a peek behind the curtain at something that I think is hilarious about the uh content department.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Which is there are five like sub-departments. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Do we still call them the five families? Do you still use that language?
SPEAKER_01:Well, that we've used that language as kind of like uh as a meeting of different representatives of those different parts of our coming together having a meeting.
SPEAKER_04:You're the mob of CIY.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if I don't know if mob is the right word.
SPEAKER_04:You're the Don Corleone of CIY.
SPEAKER_01:That's given us way too much uh grit, I think, maybe.
SPEAKER_04:But I love it so much. Anyway, um people are always excited to hear what's going on in in content world. It's something that uh to your credit and many others, we do really well here, I think. And so people are always uh asking a lot of questions. How'd you do this? What's coming next? All those kinds of things. And just wanted to have you on and chat a little bit about uh what life is like here on November 23rd in in in content world and see what we're excited about. So tell me, I know that's very vague, so I'll hone in on it a little bit. Um, specifically as we look forward to move and mix, because we're gonna have Rob on to talk specifically about Superstar. But as we look forward to Move and Mix this coming summer, there's a lot that we're still working on. There's a lot that's still up in the air, not a lot of like finalized plans, nothing like that. But we do have a silhouette of where we are headed. Absolutely. Oh and I want to know what you are excited about as it relates to content when you look forward to summer of 2026.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Uh very excited about what we're gonna, what our theme is, what we're talking about. It's at the heartbeat of uh who we are at CIY and our mission. Gonna be the theme is kingdom workers and really focusing in on that. Um, looking at the book of Ephesians, walking students the summer through the book of Ephesians, and um talking specifically about uh being created to be a kingdom worker. Um so very excited about that because you know, well, that's our mission. A lot of us get up here in the mornings and we come to work because we truly believe in calling youth to Christ and into lives of kingdom work. Yep. Um so our team's been very excited about this and about this theme. Move specifically, just talking as we read through the book of Ephesians, talking about how kingdom workers are loved, kingdom workers are rescued, kingdom workers are changed, and kingdom workers are sent. And uh something that we'll be doing this year. Uh we are currently putting plans together to um make a specific call to students to share their faith this next year and trying to try to equip them to be able to do that and understand how to do that, but then honestly, like you know, challenging the students that come to the move event and the mix event to leave the event and specifically do that to share their faith with somebody else.
SPEAKER_04:This is for most people in their shoes, a very scary thing.
SPEAKER_01:Very scary, yeah. Yeah, this is something we did as a staff, if you remember. Like last year, it was awesome, right?
SPEAKER_04:But it's like, oh my gosh, yeah, I gotta be vulnerable, and this isn't the disposition that I normally have around this group of people. And that's exactly you know, it's just different, it's just a different thing. And so equipping students for that is gonna be really cool.
SPEAKER_01:But imagine if we even had half of the students that come to our event take that challenge and go share what Jesus has done in their life with someone else, their testimony with someone else. Yeah, like it just the impact that makes and it continues to ripple forward. So we we're excited about that, and it's uh it's kind of fueling some of the plans for coming up this summer. Um, as far as that it that goes, that that's it, that's it, move, but we'll be we'll be doing the same thing at Mix. Yeah. Um uh talking about Ephesians, focusing in on kingdom work, mix mix that we'll have a little bit more of a uh music vibe, rhythm kind of like rhythm vibe or whatever to kind of center things around. So kingdom workers hear God's rhythm, kingdom workers join God's rhythm, king of work, kingdom workers play God's rhythm. It's kind of what we'll be talking with our junior high students through again, going through the book of Ephesians and uh and also giving them a challenge to share their faith this this summer too. So I love it.
SPEAKER_04:Um are we gonna have I'm putting you on the spot here. That's all right. Are we gonna have a way to get stories back from people about this?
SPEAKER_01:Hopefully, right? I love it. I mean, we're looking at trying to figure out how to collect these and how to how to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Uh just for a youth pastor to be able to say, like, hey, CIY, we had this student share their faith with so and so, and this awesome thing happened. It's like, yeah, those are always so encouraging.
SPEAKER_01:I will tell you this. I I would hope uh as we as we make this challenge and students accept this challenge and they go out that uh that even knowing it's coming ahead of time, you know what I mean, that a youth pastor could capitalize on that and even have a testimony night at their own church. Yeah, help their students practice how to do that, um, and then come back and like now let's have a testimony over the testimony that you gave with somebody, you know, and and and collect they could collect stories that way would be really powerful. Yeah, yeah, really powerful.
SPEAKER_04:One of my favorite uh verses in scripture, which of course I'm not gonna remember chapter and verse on, but in the book of Revelation, talking about how um the saints overcame adversity by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. I mean the fact that those two things are like held hand in hand. That's right. But like Jesus' blood and what he has done for you, that's how you make it through this life.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_04:That's yeah, good stuff. Yeah. And can I think we should do revelation and move one year? Revelation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, all right. We we'll take a crack at it. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no. It's like uh we'll need Dr.
SPEAKER_01:Shane Wood for that one.
SPEAKER_04:Also, move is gonna be three weeks next summer, so just kidding.
SPEAKER_01:No, we're excited about those, about all of that, and it's been really fun for our team to sit down and um we we have been digging into Ephesians, but now uh as you say, November, uh, we're at the like just late, like figuring out what the elements are gonna be and just and figuring those like at their base, putting meat on the bones. We'll start building those things come next year, but right now we're just outlining and dreaming and planning. And so this is the fun part of the season. Just dreaming. Dreaming.
SPEAKER_04:That is a headspace that I am uncomfortable with. I'm gonna tell you that right now. I'm too comfortable in the world. I know you are too comfortable. Like you walk into Patrick's office and say something, and it's like, what if this, what if this, what if this? And I'm like, ah, that's right. Um, but you guys do an incredible job um with all of that. I want to talk about our uh which you brought up, the that this would be something good to talk about. So I'm not, I know I'm not putting you on the spot with this, but our mission partner for this summer. We always have, uh, for those of you who might not be familiar, always have kind of a mission partner, a way for students to engage with what God is doing outside of the four walls of Move, outside of the four walls of their church, kind of globally. That's right. How is he at work? And we're always kind of like putting some of those things in front of them. I know that our mission partner this year is going to be very, very heavily integrated into our programming in like an even more profound way than sometimes we've been able to do in the past.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_04:And that we're excited about it. So I wanna I wanna hear about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'll say this. Um our mission partners are very intentional as to what you said. Like this isn't just like, oh, we we just we need to take up our that's not it. You know what I mean? Um when as as we pray about and seek the Lord to bring a missional partner to us that we can uh that can be a part of what we are doing and teaching throughout the summer. Students, um, there we have two two things that we're looking for. And one is is a mission partner that can help paint a picture of kingdom work that we're talking about globally, like what's what you just said, Brad, like global kingdom work. And then also someone that we know uh can allow the students to be able to practice the worship of generosity towards. Um, and it's with our mission partners year after year, it's been it's amazing to us that there's there's not this like really uh profound process of finding those mission partners. Like it really is like let's pray about it and the Lord brings people to us. And then we watch as students connect with them through the years and hear about them, we watch the Holy Spirit do something in their lives and uh and and join in a lot of times what those mission partners are doing, not just financially. Like it, I I have a boy, a boy in my D group, it literally changed the trajectory of what he was planning on doing when he saw what was happening in Ireland. Yeah. And so it's uh it's it's just an amazing thing that the Lord uses. Oh, yeah. But yeah, you're right. This this next year, we're excited about our our mission partner uh is a is a ministry called Con Mis Manos out of Matamoris, Mexico. And um, this is a ministry that is working with the deaf community in Matamoros, Mexico, specifically deaf students. Um, although the age range of students can be anywhere from a student that is uh six years old all the way to they still they have like some that are in their 30s. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04:Do I I might be putting my foot in my mouth here? Do I remember like for some cultural reason the deaf community being particularly like ostracized in Mexico? That's correct. More so than maybe they would be here.
SPEAKER_01:A lot so okay. I'd say a lot so. What is that? Uh huh. Yeah, let me I'll explain it to you because it's when when we think of the deaf community here, right? That there are there are lots of law laws that protect them. Um there are lots of policies, procedures that uh companies have, places have, doctors have, uh you name it, like government agencies where there there needs to be uh help in them being communicated to. Right. Yeah. So we know that English Sign Language is is heavily used here. Um in Connis Manos, the communication for a deaf student is very slim. Um they are it's not something that a lot of the parents of deaf children are seeking out or even have a ways or means to seek out or even learn. So uh because of that these students are growing up in a home, in a world that I'm gonna use this word, and it's a it's a it's the the word's harsh, but it's not they're discarded. But they're they're not discarded because they're not loved, they're discarded because family members can't communicate with them, and there's a relational. Therefore, there is yeah, there's a relational part that's happening, and there's not a lot of things in place for a family to learn how to communicate to their child. Um, there's also not if if you were to talk to Conmis Manos, um you you would learn that there's also uh a good percentage of families that even if there was something there, because Conmis Manos does provide like a way for uh a parent to come in and learn how learn Spanish Sign Language, um, there's also not a lot of desire sometimes to be able to do that. Yeah. Uh so um Camis Manos is the is the school where these students can come to the school because the education education for a deaf student is difficult too. Yeah, there are laws for them. Um this the Disability Act that they have there, but the problem with that is if there's not someone that there's like a enforcer that can that communicator, if there's not someone else in that classroom that knows Spanish Sign Language, even if the student does know Spanish Sign Language, and most of them don't, uh then that student just becomes an inconvenience in the classroom because now that teacher's like, I don't know what to do with you, you can't communicate to me. Uh, and so education is just difficult for them. So Comis Manos uh is a school that helps teach them Spanish Sign Language, gives them trade, helps them understand uh work that they can do. But ultimately what they do is they show these students that they are actual people that are loved by Jesus. Uh and I emphasize the actual people part because their culture sees them as less than human because of this disability that they have. And it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. And so that's that's who the offering partner is, that's Comings Manos. And uh we're gonna we're gonna highlight them throughout both move and mix, um, talk about that ministry. But another really neat thing we're gonna do is we're we're creating a film centered around the ministry, uh, but also part of that film is centered around Michelle Zuniga, who is uh the founder of it and runs Konomizmanos along with her husband Chewie. And we get to tell Michelle's story, which is like when she was like a junior high student, she went to the public library to learn sign language, and the teacher didn't show up. And so another one of the deaf students, or or even a deaf volunteer, came in to try and teach, and it was a train wreck. And at 12 years old, she was like, I need to learn this. And she learned, she began to learn. Her mom took her to classes and she learned uh English sign language and followed that thread all the way to what she's doing now, uh, but not in a way that she was like, I'm gonna be a missionary. She's really funny when she talks about it. She's like, I'm not a missionary. But uh, here is this, here is this incredible woman that had a gifting, and then I won't blow the whole story, but just followed the doors that opened up, which uh which led her as a as a single 20-something on the doorsteps of a church in Matamores, Mexico, looking at a pastor and his wife who did not speak English, she did not speak Spanish, uh, but they but knew there was some there was a need for some deaf ministry, and she just stayed. That was 20-something years now now. There's a whole school and a ministry to this a this uh this community. That is so it's amazing.
SPEAKER_04:And she is like the most humble person in the entire world and just a delight. Absolutely. So I'm excited for students to just meet her. Yeah, it's gonna be really fun.
SPEAKER_01:And what and yeah, what you were referring to before is we're also gonna get to integrate those students through film all throughout move and mix in in different ways. So um Spanish Sign Language is going to be used throughout the program and uh even uh have some of the students at Comey's Monos lead some of our prayer times. Uh we're we're excited to see how that goes. And and I truly believe we're gonna see a group of students, a portion of our students, um whose hearts gravitate towards uh the uh disability ministries, uh and the I think even specifically de into deaf ministry ministry. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's incredible. I can't wait to see how it all plays out and what the Lord does through that, as you're kind of alluding to. It's yeah, always crazy. I mean, yeah, it's always crazy how he takes our little dreams and just blows them up and does incredible things with them. So um, I'm excited to see how that goes. All right. Um we're gonna go talk to Mike here in just a second. Before we do, we have a segment on the podcast called Mike'ed Up with Mike, where he just gets to talk about anything he wants. Okay. And we get to join in on it. And it's so fun. Okay. So it's time for Mike'ed Up with Mike.
SPEAKER_03:This week in World News. Oh gosh. A heist at the Louvre. Oh, I read about this. I did see that. Um They didn't get very far. I I don't know. Have they have they caught all of them?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I know like the the main from what I understand, the main thing that people were worried about, like the crown. Yeah, they just dropped that. Oh, I thought it was like earrings or something. Was it earrings?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, they they stole a bunch of things. Oh, there's a lot of stuff. A lot of extremely valuable jewelry. Yeah, yeah. Um let me just like read some some basic information about this, Heist, okay? Okay. This happened on October 19th. The entire thing took place in less than eight minutes. They showed up with a truck that had a mounted ladder, climbed that up to the second store, used special equipment to break through a window to get inside, they smashed the display glass to get several different pieces, um, and then escaped on motorized scooters.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Tell me, tell me you didn't picture uh George Clooney and Brad Pitt and Matt Damon doing that. This does not sound that suave.
SPEAKER_01:This is just like, hey, this is a good match could have done.
SPEAKER_03:This is a this is a literal smash and grass.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The entire amount of time that they spent inside the actual building was about four minutes. Like a very fast operation that happened one, in broad daylight, and two, while the museum was open. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was open. While it was it was like just opening, right? It was like at the very beginning of the right before or so. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Now, of course at CIY, we do not condone thievery of any kind. Not at all. Um, but you know, I'm not gonna tell you not to watch Oceans 11 if you feel like it. Um or 12. But here's the question that I want to turn around to you guys. If you were part of a heist crew, what role would you play? I have I have a list that that Google just like was able to, you know, serve to me if you would like assistance in coming up with what role you might play.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Do you want to hear the list?
SPEAKER_04:Or do you feel like this is funny because I love playing board games with you, Patrick. And we play cooperative board games all the time where it's like you have to be this person and I have to be this person. It's kind of a heist game would be fun. Oh yeah. Do you know one? Oh, yeah, Burgle Brothers.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, bro. Oh yeah. So good. I love Burgle Brothers. It's so good. I don't know what it would be called, uh, but I'd come up with a creative way to actually pull the thing off.
SPEAKER_03:Like that's that's like the mastermind.
SPEAKER_01:I guess so, if that's what you call that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean the mastermind is the person who, according to the description here, orchestrates the entire operation, including assembling the crew.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. I don't know about assembling the crew, okay, but I would be like, yeah, I'm gonna this is how we're gonna creatively do this. This is how we're gonna pull this off.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I do feel like mine might actually be assembling the crew, like the just the galvanizing of it all, you know? Yeah. Um, but also just like distraction.
SPEAKER_03:Like, do you need someone to just stand in the hallway and so there is a there is a grifter or distraction role. It is a voice or con artist who uses social skills to create diversions or manipulation.
SPEAKER_01:I th I think I'd I could fall onto that too. You could do that. Like I could 100%. I can convince you I'm somebody I'm not.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And you're great to talk to. Like, who doesn't want to just stand in the hallway at the Louvre and talk to Patrick? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. What about you, Pike?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I could see myself maybe doing two potentially of the things. I think one uh would be the hacker. I mean, I don't have any actual hacking skills right now, but I think, you know, if in the in a fantastical, you know, whatever, um, that would be one of the things that I might do. Or potentially the getaway driver.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, we had a staff fun day a couple of years ago that involved driving all over Joplin, and I was the designated driver.
SPEAKER_04:The fork one. Um there's there's been multiple like that.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but I on the team that I was on, I I was the designated driver. Um not because everyone else was drinking. Not because everyone else was drinking. That's right. But because you were the person who was driving because I was not drinking, is why nobody drinks our staff Monday. Nobody. There was no alcohol part of it. Um uh but I remember at one point we had to make a very fast um change in destinations, which included a change in directions, um, which meant crossing multiple lanes of traffic uh uh safely, of course, but assertively. Um and I told the entire rest of the van right before I did this, don't worry, I just beat GTA five, and then expertly made it all the way across where we needed to be so we could um get the turn.
SPEAKER_04:Uh I'm sure Ryan Claiburn doesn't listen to this podcast. But if you do, Ryan, I'm sorry. Well Also, Ryan's the getaway driver. 100%. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not in a CI vehicle. No, not in a CI vehicle, but in Peichel's scenario. Yes. No, you're you're right. That's fair.
SPEAKER_03:Also, this was a this was a changed man.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. Any law enforcement officials listening, this is hypothetical, purely hypothetical. Um, that's incredible, Michael. Did they get everything back that was stolen from the Louvre?
SPEAKER_03:I think they've only been able to uh to recover that that crown.
SPEAKER_04:Because here's the thing it's like if you steal a bunch of stuff from the Louvre, what are you gonna do pawn it? Like everybody in France has seen pictures of these items and knows what you know, like what are you I guess you just gotta go black market, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't even I don't I don't swim in these things at all. So I have I have no clue even how to answer your question. Yeah like I don't I I don't even know where you would go to sell it outside of the black market, to be honest with you. You wouldn't go to a pawn shop? Just a pawn shop?
SPEAKER_04:I would just take it to a pawn shop? No, I I wouldn't do that. You wouldn't I'm saying if I had like the thing that people do with stolen items, I had a storage shed broken into that had items of similar value to the Louvre to me in it, and um somebody stole a a gun that I had in there. Okay, and found it at a pawn shop, and it was at a pawn shop, found it at a pawn shop my shotgun. Can you believe that? All right. Well, wow, that was a lot. Thanks, Michael. Um Patrick, you ready to go talk to Mr. Branton? I am all right, let's do it. Mike, so glad to have you back. Our conversation last time was awesome, and I'm really looking forward. You're such a thoughtful person, and I'm excited uh to hear what you have to say about this uh topic of writing curriculum, everybody's favorite conversation. Right? We love curriculum. Um okay. Uh it doesn't it doesn't sound like it would make for you know thrilling radio just sitting around talking about scope and sequence and stuff, but um I actually really am looking forward to this conversation. I think it's gonna be a good one. So thanks for being here, man.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:Um okay, so uh you guys at Sun Valley Community Church, I want to just kind of start by you laying out a little bit of what you see as the context of Sun Valley. Like what is your guys' kind of philosophy of ministry as you exist in the valley? And then we'll kind of jump off from there, if that's okay.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. So we're a multi-site church in Arizona, and so um we have six campuses and a central team and you know, some other fun projects that are like prison campuses and things like that, but we don't have students there. So for my context, uh six campuses and philosophy of ministry uh is uh relationally driven. Um and so we put a lot of stock into small groups and our smaller leaders and uh and then how that plays out uh in in different contexts. So application, we we encourage our students to get plugged in serving, whether that's inside the church walls or outside the church walls, but uh applying what they know uh in their their walk with Jesus. And so kind of from a high-level curriculum standpoint, uh we have three major things that we would we would say we focus on uh that equal transformation. So it's gonna be information. That's that's a given with curriculum, information, application, and then relationship. And when you add all those up, it equals transformation. Um, and so that's kind of where we start when we think curriculum uh at Sun Valley.
SPEAKER_04:So tell me how you're you guys have a large team, and I know that I'm asking you uh a difficult question here, especially for someone who can't like lay eyes on their org chart. But when it comes to writing curriculum in particular, can you tell me how that plays out, like on your team? Is everybody involved in that? Is there a specific team that's like dedicated to doing this? How do how does that all work?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we have a central content writer um who gets input from the campus youth pastors, if that makes sense. So a couple times a year we'll have uh a few meetings that talk about hey, what's direction? What do you think would be uh uh appropriate and where do you want to go with content with your students? And then uh we also have a scope and sequence where the big rocks kind of fall in, um, and we're able to tweak and adjust that. And then weekly and monthly, there's still like we go back and forth and say, like, hey, how did this work? There's so there's still tweaks and changes that happen. Um, but our heartbeat behind having someone centrally write the curriculum versus uh our youth pastors spending hours behind a desk is that they can use those hours to then go relationally invest into their volunteers, their families, and their students. And so they're still gonna have to spend a little bit of time with the content uh because they have to deliver it, they have to make it their own and personalize it. Uh, but the bulk of that is provided to youth pastors uh from our central team.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. And so you that's one person, though. Like you have one curriculum writer and then someone for kids and someone for students.
SPEAKER_00:So it's a couple people, but and they work together uh on some things, but yeah, one one content provider.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so let's just dig into this. We'll start at the very beginning here. Why for you is it a priority to have those two people on your staff writing curriculum as opposed to, hey, we're gonna go out in the marketplace and and and purchase something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, well, it doesn't mean that we don't go purchase things either. Uh so I'm a proponent, beg, borrow, steal, buy, like use the things that are really good out there. Um, but for our context, um, we would take that and put it through like a Sun Valley filter and we would make it our own, regardless of if it's from scratch or if it's, you know, bought from somewhere and then adapted. Uh but really the importance of having those people, it goes back to that time saver for the youth pastor. Um, it's to give them something uh tangible enough to where they don't have to go and do all the research that that takes to put it together. They don't have to think through the flow and all the wording and and formatting, um, even thinking up questions for their leaders. Now, does that mean when they get the content, they they don't add a question here or there, or subtract a question, or add a personal story? Yeah, they still spend Time with it, but it is that time saver that allows them the freedom to go invest in different areas and not be stuck behind a desk. Um the beautiful part of that though is they still have input and they still have influence over where that goes. It's not just uh, you know, here go run the play. Um, they still have the ability to speak into it.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. So Patrick, as a creative person, super creative guy. Um what does like how does this and uh f forgive me, I actually don't know this. You've have you ever been on staff at a church? Yeah. Okay. So you're on staff at a church. Yeah. How does the like if you're creative and you feel like you're gifted the way that you're gifted, how do you feel like you fit into a structure like this? Does that question make sense?
SPEAKER_01:I think so. Are you you're you're asking me as a creative, if if someone is handing me the curriculum and I'm and I'm just taking that curriculum and then presenting it, how how does that how would that fit in with me? Is that what you mean?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Uh great question. The the question I guess I would ask, and I and I'm glad you asked this because I had this in mind for you, Mike. How how how rigid and structured is that curriculum? Once that curriculum is written uh and then handed off to the campus, how much flexibility do they have with that curriculum? That's what I would be asking as a creative. I would say, are you asking me to like go word for word, um follow it, or do I have the flexibility to take this and then and then creatively use it within the context of the students that I am, that I know? Like this is the group that I have my hard. And I ask the same, this is the same question I would have as a small group leader, by the way. As a D group leader, I have this question. That's interesting perspective. Yeah. Like here's what I've been handed, and I want to follow what's been taught, but I I also know these students really well. Can I then contextualize it for them? Does that make sense? That's what I would be asking as a creative.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. So you could go two ways with this, right? It could be one way would frustrate you, Patrick, as a creative, and one way would you would be like, oh, you just save me a bunch of time. It's the, oh, you just save me a bunch of time. So we would provide like, like, let's just take an object lesson for an example. So we we create this lesson, we're going through it. Say it's say we're presenting the gospel and we're using this fun creative way with water or something. We would do all of that work ahead of time, but Patrick, you'd be like, oh man, I actually have this other way with these like lights that I wanted to do. Totally fine. We're just saying, like, hey, stick with the main scripture, stick with the bottom line. Um, and then here is this like provided material if you don't have the time or if you don't have the creativity, because we have lots of different personalities, we have lots of different giftings on our teams in those six locations. Um, and so I will I'm happy when I go around and like look at different people applying the content. I'm happy when they lean to their strengths and they've owned it. Like that, that's kind of the goal for that. Uh, so Patrick wouldn't be frustrated in our system uh because he he would have the ability to adapt, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Would you is it fair to call what you provide to your campus youth pastors like a foundation that they're able to build upon, or or do you view it more than that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so in I would say in big picture ministry scope and then even in content, my hope and desire is that it's a 60-40 split. Um, so 60% of the time we're all moving the same direction. We're using resources wisely and you capitalizing on the momentum of that 60%. 40% of the time is like the campus needs to do their own thing or contextualize it, or however that plays out that works best for the people that they're serving. And so even that 60% needs to be uh contextualized, but the 40% they own on events or the night of week they meet or things like that that might differ be different from other campuses, but yeah, there's freedom in that that flexibility to to tweak and change and adjust.
SPEAKER_01:I've got a question.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was gonna say it sounded like you were about to say something.
SPEAKER_01:I have a question. For for you for the your writers, like the ones that actually create the curriculum, Mike. What is uh it do you have? Uh is it possible? Do you have AI like uh regulations? Regulation is a little bit harsher word than what I mean. Policies, maybe, or best practices, guardrails. Uh guardrails. That's a that's the nice way to say it. Perfect. Guardrails. Um now I'm picturing Mario Kart, you know, like watered down because that I my buggy can't go off the side of the because of the guardrails. Like when you're bowling and you got to go. Yeah, exactly. But anyway, Mike, do you guys, or is this a conversation that you you're like, man, we're in the midst of this, or like how much do you use AI to create your own stuff? Do you even have a percentage? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:I don't that is a phenomenal question. I would say it's uh constantly evolving as as the technology is evolving and the um that as a resource is is shifting and changing. Um, do we use AI? Yes. Um I would say the the guardrails that I would put up with my team are uh when it comes to like the biblical and spiritual side of things, um, to avoid AI in those categories because AI is not spirit-filled, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh you are the you're the pastor, you're the you know, steward of this ministry. Don't advocate that to AI, right? And so when it comes to like the biblical side of things, please don't do that. When it comes to the fun and time saving and things like that, uh yes. Are we are we making you know, verse vibes with AI? You know, are we are we doing like crazy logos with AI that save so much time, but it looks good and it's it works from a week-to-week basis? Um yeah, are we getting maybe like question prompts that we then filter through a human? Yeah, all of those are AI, you know, uses. Um, but I would, I would more than a guardrail, I would say like warning sign, stop, you know, off limits, this is out of bounds, do not approach uh that side of like just advocating the spiritual direction and uh biblical context to AI. I would I would never do that.
SPEAKER_04:But things outside of that, structure, games, format, yeah. What like those types of things you're really comfortable? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Brainstorming type of like using as a brainstorming tool, those types of things.
SPEAKER_04:That's actually one of the most valuable things it's provided for me. It's just like, hey, give me 10 ideas for this. And then, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, that's really cool. That's a good question. Did you feel like you I don't know if I oh yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I I understand it. And it it is like we're the same way, right? We we use it, but we are we're wrestling through, you know, exact the exact same things of how do we use it? What do we what what should we use? What shouldn't we use? Um, and uh I mean I I 100% agree. It it will be very easy to believe that it's the Holy Spirit talking to you when it is an AI system, and it is not the Holy Spirit. Um I I'm not saying the Holy Spirit can't can't talk through it, but I just there's just You shouldn't assume that it is. The word of God, open to the Word of God and me figuring out what students need to hear directly from the Word of God is 100% the best practice and what we what we stick to as well.
SPEAKER_00:But uh ironically, I was talking to my 16-year-old today on the drive to school to drop her off. We were talking about this very topic because in she has a Bible class at school, um, and they did this this experiment of like they asked AI these prompts, and then they the like what from what they were already studying and they compared, like was it accurate, was it here on like a biblical uh side of things? And um, man, even a even like a two-degree, because it the AI side for that was was actually off from what they were actually studying, even that two degrees, it might be accurate in terms of like, I have the this verse and the the um you know, maybe historical context, but literally one one prompt they had said, this was written to these people and it doesn't apply today. And my my daughter was like, I understand it was written to those people, but it does apply today. Like they were just like, ah, that's so different, you know?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, huge difference, but like on the page, very, very, very similar. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I wonder if there will ever be like AI models that are trained from a Christian worldview, you know? Like if you can because you can pick ensure that's like what being worked on. I can right, yeah. Like Gemini chooses what trains its its AI model, right? Yeah, and it's so I wonder I don't know, that's fascinating to think about.
SPEAKER_00:Like I know, well, no, I'm not I'm not saying to the furthest extent of like, okay, Bible Gateway or whoever like created this, you know, platform, even then it's just pulling from you know references and right, collected information.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. It it is not a it's not a human soul giving you spiritual advice.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's exactly right. Hmm.
SPEAKER_04:Fascinating stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Which, you know, what you this is about curriculum, but we should always continually help our students know the number one source of truth and spiritual truth is God's word, and then the the leaders it the spiritual leaders in your life to help you uh interpret that and understand God's word.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, uh always vessels of the Holy Spirit. Always, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That'll never change. It's been like that since the beginning of time, since God began communicating with the people, which I believe happens right in in the book of Genesis right off the bat. So, you know, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It uh it is fascinating that we're kind of like having to develop an ethic of AI like as the technology is becoming more prevalent narcissists. It's scary, you know? Because like it would be so easy. I mean, I'm not insinuating that this is or has happened in your context, Mike, but it would be easy for the people that you've hired to write curriculum to dip their toes into the water that you're talking about just because like they've their the line is gray about what exactly it is I should or can do and whatnot, and you know what I mean, and then eventually that line can move and change and it's like we have to be proactive about saying, all right, we believe as a church that God has uh ordained us to create the material that we're gonna present to our students rather than buying that material, and um like we have to we have to think intentionally about this and not just let it happen. Even actually, well, as I was saying that I got hung up on it because like buying curriculum, that's another thing you don't know is like what are those what is that company's exactly like ethic.
SPEAKER_00:Whether it's AI, a a packaged curriculum, even if you're writing your own, like there's this I think like dangerous moment where like if you are just relying on information and not like what God is doing in your own life as a spiritual leader of uh, you know, in in our context, students, um you could be just relying on the God-given talents that you have and not the Holy Spirit, and not uh personal interactions with with God yourself, and go up there and teach the best lesson ever and it fall flat because it is void of uh you know this like intangible thing, you know, that that AI doesn't have and that people can miss. And so there's this dangerous moment of of having that that happen.
SPEAKER_04:All right, Patrick, you have to respond to that because I'm looking something up on AI.
SPEAKER_01:Just kidding. I agree. No, I I mean I 100% agree with what Mike is saying, of course. Um there's uh there is a man, there's a lot of different dangers and precautions from it. So this isn't the only one. There's a lot. Uh but I I do think it if we're talking specifically curriculum like creation, teaching creation using AI, I think, I think something that we'll always we always need to keep in mind is it is a tool that helps you helps you do it quicker, that is for sure. Um you can do it a lot quicker. Uh but that I but I still think marinating in God's word and and and taking the time to do those things is going to be important. And I think there could be uh there could be a tension at some point where it's just like, no, I I've only given myself 30 minutes because AI lets me do this really quick. And and but I think there's we just always need to keep in mind marinating on God's word, speaking to other people about what it is that we want to teach our students, uh, allowing them to talk and influence uh what what we what we need to say. Like I mean spiritual leaders. Um I think I think that's still important, even though the tool can allow you to put it together quicker. And I think that's something that um will be good for all of us to keep in mind that create and make uh teaching for youth, the youth. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um I wanna ask Mike one more question really quick about kind of the I I want to g jump back in the conversation um and ask about your um your kind of structure with the the people on staff. And then I I want to give you a heads up about this because I think you're gonna have to think about it. Um I do want to talk about how uh I want to get to a point where we talk about how you scale this down, right? Like I'm at a church and we cannot afford to hire a person to do this. Um like I want to just talk through that. But um you kind of talked about how you guys it's like if the if if it's good, we'll borrow it, we'll buy it, we'll steal it. I don't know what what words you use there, but um what just really practically, what percentage of the stuff that comes out of that office at Sun Valley is we developed this from scratch versus we had a starting point with something that we purchased or or things like that. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So my defensive answer is nothing's new under the sun.
SPEAKER_04:Uh oh no, yeah. Um that came up on the last episode too.
SPEAKER_00:It's like we've been doing this for 2,000 years and you know, it's it's it's um so whether it's uh a book someone read or an idea someone had or whatever, it it feels like we're we're just um contextualizing it for the age and stage of the people that we're ministering to. Um so in that realm, I would I but I I truly hear your question. I would say um 50-50.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:If that's fair. So 50% of it is like us just thinking up like this is gonna be really good topic or direction for what we need for our people. And then the other 50% is like these are unchanging things. What's really good out there that we can just adapt to what we're doing, you know? Um, and so we go on a hunt and we find some really good stuff, and then just maybe tweak some language or whatever just to culturally make it fit. But yeah, 50-50 would be my my gut.
SPEAKER_04:And when you do buy things, another really just practical in the weeds question here. Is it um like a subscription type thing that you guys are a part of that you can pull from? Or do you just go one off like, oh, this is cool. We're gonna buy just this series or whatever it may be. Yes. But all of the above. All of it. Yeah, all of it. If it's out there and we feel like it's what we need, what our students need, we'll go get it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think this is maybe important to um to talk about curriculum uh two, is sometimes we do video curriculum, uh, and but we we create we create the videos, like um, we have a studio, things like that, and and different youth pastors will come in and film like a week or a series or things like that. Um but whenever we do video curriculum, uh whether we've created it or purchased it or however, and we but we we integrate the video. So the video doesn't again, we're not advocating to just a screen, uh the the spiritual direction. Like every time we do video teaching, we always land it live with with uh either a volunteer who's who's been trained to do that or uh the the pastor of the ministry.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Thanks for helping us understand uh tr truly what this looks like. I'm I'm encouraged by kind of your heartbeat for this whole thing and especially the the relational side that you're like we I we invest in this because it um creates relational space for uh our campus youth pastors and those types of things is just a really cool way of looking at it that I appreciate. Um I do, like I said, want to talk about a church of 800 people who's got a hundred kids in the youth group, one youth pastor, um one youth pastor who feels like he should or is called to uh write his curriculum for his his students or her students. Um how do some of the things that you're saying contextualize that way?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man, that that is a layered question for me. Uh because I feel like I have a bunch of answers I want to say. Um baby, let's go. I kind of want to start, I want to start here. Um, anyone, including us, who chooses to like spend the appropriate amount of time and energy on writing their own um curriculum, I I want us to not get the cart before the horse kind of uh analogy, but I I want us to understand just me personally looking back at my youth group years, all of that information was so important and foundational. But it's not that it's not a singular thing that that I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that series. No, absolutely not. Yeah, like you remember the personhood, you remember the leadership, you remember that volunteer that was consistent. Um you remember how they made you feel. Yeah, that walked alongside you in that truth, right?
SPEAKER_01:That is correct.
SPEAKER_00:Um, because because truth is can constantly gonna be like God's gonna be continually working on you with his truth. Like that's not gonna come back void. Um, but I also want to caution uh even our own team and others that like are like, this is the way we do it, because this is who we are, and this is how I'm gifted, and all that is so important, but I don't think we can make it the main thing. Um and and that's why it information, application, relationship is information is only one side of what content is for us. It's not the end all be all. Um, and so just to put that in check for people that may might be thinking like, uh, like I'm really good at this, or this is my calling, or this is how we do it, I would like to say please leave a little crack in the door that that other things can come into and affect uh your content. Um, because the the writing of it isn't necessarily the end all be all. Um so off that soapbox, but but now to try to help answer your question, um I would say the amount of energy that's put into creating it um is not you is not your job. Well, we might have an employee at a larger scale that can do that. That employee is still called to equip the saints. Like he's that person still gets volunteers involved in what they're doing. Just like if you're at a small a smaller church or medium-sized church that uh you're the the sole leader, paid paid staff member. Um, I think you should still invite other people in and equip them and train them and utilize their gifts in that content process as well. Uh a lot of people I that I know of skip that step because they're the paid person to get that done. Um, but they'll find the small group leaders and they'll find the, you know, right.
SPEAKER_04:When you think of volunteering in youth ministry, you think of being a small group leader.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. Yeah. Where uh our content person has a team of volunteers that they invest into and they rely on. Um just like I would expect a staff member to have volunteers for their students today. So, so I guess my major point here is like your job as as staff, as pastoral staff, is to equip the saints and not always just to do the work, right? And sometimes that's harder. Sometimes you're faster. You're the AI of their, you know, that scenario. You're faster if you just do it on your own, but you're I think you're missing something in not just your own process, but the people around you that God could be utilizing in that that process as well.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and like youth pastor, every youth pastor, I'm sure, has or should have acknowledged that that like you're not you probably have a program that you want to put on for your students and you're not like necessarily gifted in every single aspect of what you want to do. So like if I'm sitting like putting my youth pastor hat on and I'm programming uh a Wednesday night for my students, like I'm really confident in my ability to teach and to work on the curriculum side. I'm not fun, like I'm not a fun person. Like when it comes to like having a game or an icebreaker or whatever, like that's not me at all. But like pulling in somebody, I mean that's the church, that's what it's supposed to be. But like consolidating that to just the the small group side of things in youth ministry, that is definitely something um important for youth pastors to think about.
SPEAKER_00:You may like also tap in and equip your your actual students to do these things as well. Yeah, train them up in how to do that and give them the platform as well. Um, if if some of my youth pastors had like you know, five or six weeks where they were the only ones on stage teaching, I would have an issue with that. Raise up those teams, equip your volunteers, equip your students to do that part of it. And some of it is like, you know, we feel that weight because we are the employee and you know, maybe we might not have those teams yet. Um, but if someone can do it 80% as good as you, let's get them on stage. Yeah. Because then that frees you up to do some other things at in that role that you wouldn't be able to do if you're, you know, tied to that stage. Uh, maybe it's a conversation with a parent uh during drop-off, but you're worried about making sure the slides are all you know up and ready to go for for the teaching portion. Like there's so many things where I would say include more people in this process of of curriculum.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And well, go ahead. Well, Mike, how much how much when you're when you guys are creating curriculum, how much of it are you are you thinking, okay, a student could do this outside of the all the time. So you're just you're just making the curriculum in that way so that even a student could pick up, pick it up and and use it. And how often does that happen? Do you have a any kind of like ratio that you can think of?
SPEAKER_00:Like weekly, all the time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you have students weekly teaching other students using the curriculum that you're creating. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Whether that's you know, uh an older high school student in the younger age groups or an intern, um, but also uh volunteers, not just students, but volunteers. We we try to create those teams. Um and and at the end of the day, it is harder um to get them, like it's not gonna save you a ton of time to do this because you still have to put a dip different energy into preparing them to speak than you would just prepare to speak, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but you're letting them flex spiritual muscles that they've they've got to flex, you know. And you talked about it maybe only being 80% as good as what you would do, but you give them one or two dozen reps and all of a sudden they're doing it 120% as good as you were, you know, and it's like, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And the kingdom dividends that you get from that are huge. Yeah, they're huge, which I I I would say also is a is it is a place to point like to advocate towards making your own curriculum because not that buying curriculum is like what we said, we've been doing you you do it, you do, you buy curriculum, but it's not gonna know how to create exactly what you need in that area most of the time. It's it's gonna be a more generalized type of curriculum. So yeah, creating your own curriculum. Right.
SPEAKER_00:If you handed a packaged curriculum to a student, right, man, that could that could go wrong real quick. Most packaged curriculums give you more than you would ever need uh in the amount of time that you have and and what you would actually want to present, right? Yeah, and so ours is just pared down to uh to like a hey, here here you go. And it's pretty simple to to follow the our our curriculum, even if it's adapted from bot curriculum, you know?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Um okay, we are uh kind of honing in on the end of this conversation, I think. But you've said so many thought-provoking things, and my mind keeps jumping back to like previous points in the conversation. I feel a little bit erratic, but um, we're just gonna keep moving forward here for a second. So um, but I want you to be able to think about we're gonna wind down here a second. So if you got anything else you want to say, okay, you're you you're you you're on the clock. Um I can ask him anything. But anything you want. Um one thing that I wanted to note, you have a 16-year-old. That's crazy, first of all. Um, that was just one thing that popped into my mind that I didn't get to say earlier. That's insane. Um, but also super cool for you. Uh what's it like um having a like a lot of youth pastors are young, you know. I'm sure many of the people on your team are young, have young kids. How has it changed your perspective on this, like being a dad, you know, and saying like this isn't just for other people's kids, this is for my kids. How has that kind of formed your thoughts on all this kind of stuff?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I have I have uh a high schooler, a junior higher, and a preteen, uh, all girls in my house right now. Yep. So I have one in kind of every stage of of our next gen areas uh in students. And so um, man, it informs me a ton because my high schooler is is teaching in preteen. Uh my junior higher is teaching in kids on stage, you know what I mean? Like so they're they're stepping down uh in in in teaching. Um so yeah, to see it play out from that standpoint, um, it's just a massive win when when they get involved because it takes their ownership up, uh it takes their understanding of the the actual lesson to a degree that no one in the audience is gonna get because they're they have to know it so well to teach it, right? And so I've seen the benefits of all that play out uh inside my own house, which has been really cool.
SPEAKER_04:That's awesome. Um do you uh what is your relationship like with the person who writes your curriculum for students, like your working relationship?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, great. Uh he he's been in ministry a couple decades. Uh he knows his stuff. He's like the one of the best people to do this role. Uh so I trust him a ton. Um, and so it's it's really fun. Fun on my end to just be able to give like creative sparks or like, hey, have you thought of this? Uh, because everything that he throws out, I I wholeheartedly trust. And so I'm not like combing anything or skimming through it to see, like, is this what we need to be doing? Um, so that's been really fun. Uh and and uh he has the freedom to connect and meet with the team and get feedback, you know, regularly. So I feel like it's a really good working scenario. But again, someone in a different context who doesn't have a paid role, that's that's a position uh that you could seek out a volunteer for uh probably.
SPEAKER_04:Or a handful. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that's super great. Those were kind of the two loosenes in my mind that I wanted to jump back to. Sorry that that didn't flow super well. But uh those were questions that I had. All right, Patrick. You can ask him anything you want. Anything anything you want.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I'll be kind. Like you're you're like you you just said, so youth pastor, leader of youth pastors, uh dad of a of a student that is in every one of these age categories that we've been talking about. If there is somebody that has to teach all of those ages at once, I'm at a small church and I've I've got all of them. Like this is who this is what I have, and you were and you could from your collective wisdom of just being that dad and being a youth pastor, what's the one topic that you would say, hit this topic? It it actually would it because I know they're all nuanced, but is there if they if I'm the guy that's just sitting there and I'm like, man, I've or gal and I've got to teach, I've got to give a lesson for a fourth grader through a twelfth grader because that's who's in my room. What would what should I what should I focus on?
SPEAKER_00:That is a great question. And honestly, so this is year 23 in ministry, that answer has changed depending on the the generation. Um man, for for that room in this moment. I think I would I think I would key back in on identity. I I I just feel like if if their identity is found in Christ and not in in some other things right now, uh it might be a cop-out answer, because it's like, of course. Um my 1k topic uh in inside in not identity. Um if you're like, what else should we talk about? Uh I think we've gone through a cycle of of students um wanting to like know truth, like seek out like what does what is what is truth. I think we've gone through that that cycle. Um I think what what this next generation is wanting to know because information's everywhere, like with we talked with AI, like they can look anything up and get a decent-ish answer, right? Um but how to how to culturally understand God's word um would be kind of one A. So if they understand who they are in God, then I think next step is like, how do I, how do I play this out um in in the context I'm in? Is this if that makes sense?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it totally does.
SPEAKER_00:So one thing, one thing too that I would add to our curriculum is like everywhere we can is direct line to Jesus. And I know that that can actually be difficult when it comes to curriculum. Um because well, I don't know if it's it's not difficult. I think sometimes it's just overlooked. Uh, and we can be like, oh, this is a great point. But then a student is like, I I got the the moral point, you know, I got the I got the application of like, okay, don't lie. Um, but are you pointing that back to Jesus somehow? You know, and so that's that's like a a key fundamental thing inside of our context for curriculum, is that everything should point back to Jesus. Our bottom lines should always reference, like, oh, this is tied back to Jesus somehow. Um, even if we're in the Old Testament, like it should it ties back to Jesus. And so uh the Bible that we use in all of our rooms is the Jesus-centered Bible. Uh, it always has yeah, you know, Jesus is in red letters, his like his words, but blue letters in the old testament and in the new testament are like, oh no, this is pointing directly back to Jesus.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. Uh I've never heard of that. That's really cool. What's it called? Jesus-centered Bible. Jesus-centered Bible, huh?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, phenomenal resource.
SPEAKER_01:Because ultimately it makes complete sense because ultimately it's the relationship with him that will they will continue to sustain through the rest of their lives, even after they are in our ministries, at our events. That is what continues to sustain them and walk them through the life that God has created them, their relationship with Jesus. Yeah. I love it.
SPEAKER_04:I cannot think of a single better way to end this episode than on that note right there. Um Mike, you have given me a lot to chew on. It's funny because um every time I have had one of these conversations for this season of the podcast, I'm always kind of like nodding along. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like people have thought through these things really deeply and they make really, really uh valid arguments. And I'm recording this episode on the same day that I recorded Anne. And um, she was kind of on the on the uh purchasing curriculum side of things, but um now I'm having an existential crisis because of both of you. So thank you for that. Yeah, uh no, appreciate your wisdom, appreciate the thought that you've put into this and the work that you do at Sun Valley. So thanks for being here, man.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. Always fun. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, we're gonna finish up today by having you, Patrick. I'm so excited for this. We did I this deserves a backstory, but I'm not gonna give it yet. We'll give it in a little bit. Um by letting you add someone to our little cork board here and hype them up a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:I get to add someone to this to the board. Uh crazy as crazy enough, I'm adding Mike Branton to it. What? I'm adding Mike Branton to it. Crazy! And the backstory is I didn't know we were talking to Mike Branton, right? So I've really chose I don't know where to put this. Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_04:And this is the most awkward. I botched the scheduling of this recording. So you thought we were talking to Ann Wilson. Turns out we were talking to Mike Branton, and you had chosen him as your person. I did.
SPEAKER_01:So why do you love Mike? Uh I because Mike has committed his life to student ministry. Yeah. Like it 100% has committed his life to student ministry and has had multiple roles. And and honestly, what what Mike impresses me with is he moves to whatever is needed in student ministry. So needed he was needed in a high school ministry and he he he built an excellent high school ministry. Then it was like, hey, pre-teen. So Mike goes to help build an excellent preteen ministry. Uh, and now he's working on preteen and junior high. You know, and and not only that, but Mike, he just pours a lot of time and energy into other youth pastors to help them understand how to reach the next generation. And it's just part of his, it's just part of his DNA and what he's committed his life to. And there have been inspires me.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there have been like several stories of youth pastors who have been kind of like down and out, you know, had bad church situations or whatever, that have like gone to work at Sun Valley under Mike. And it's like revitalized their sense of calling and their passion for the work because that is the spirit that he brings to his role. And he is great. And I'm glad you chose him, and I'm glad we got to talk to him today. Absolutely. Uh thanks, Patrick. Thanks uh to Mike for all the work that he does and for being here today. Uh, today's episode was produced by Michael Hester, Lauren Bryan, and myself. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. I don't know what we're doing in two weeks, but I'll be here. So see you next time.