Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
Bringing together influential voices from the CIY community to walk alongside you in your journey to maintain momentum between the mountaintop experiences of youth ministry.
Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
BTE 5.03 Prioritizing Student-Only Spaces vs. Integrating Students in "Big Church": Part 1 with Tito Lozano and Logan Sperry
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Want teens to feel seen, speak up, and stick around? We dig into the power of student-only spaces with Family Ministries pastor Tito Lozano and uncover how comfort, agency, and relationship-driven environments lead to deeper faith and smoother integration into the wider church. Tito walks us through a simple but game-changing redesign—turning a stage into a lounge with couches and beanbags—and how that shift invited vulnerability and richer small group conversations. We also unpack student ownership: room decor, anonymous feedback surveys, and a voice in series planning that sparks buy-in and makes “our youth group” feel truly theirs.
We don’t stop at the youth room door. Tito shares a balanced rhythm for integration—one Sunday a month in “big church”—that familiarizes teens with the lead pastor, corporate worship, and adult liturgy without sacrificing the age-intentional midweek environment. We tackle serving pathways that don’t bury the same students behind tech every week, and we highlight the irreplaceable role of adult leaders who show up at games, concerts, and fourth-meal hangouts. Those everyday moments become the bridge from adolescent faith to adult discipleship.
Hi, I'm Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event Youth Ministry Podcast presented by Christ and Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. Uh today's guest is Tito Lozano. He is the Family Ministries pastor at Lakeshore Christian Church in Smyrna, Tennessee. Tito and I are going to be kicking off our conversation about uh the intentionality of student-only spaces. As opposed to getting students involved in big church, air quotes there for sure. Um we're gonna have a great conversation. Before we dig into that, though, it's story time. Just a reminder that if you have a story you think would make my callous little heart feel anything, uh humor, joy, um, you can email that to podcast at CIY.com. I'll read it on the air as written. Today's story comes from Shaley Bradshaw at Lake Ridge Christian Church in Paris, Illinois. She says, Here is a story of a way God moved within our group at Move. During our week at Move, I brought a group of students who have been with me since the beginning of my ministry. They were freshmen when I started and are now entering their senior year. I always knew one was planning to go into ministry as we had talked about colleges and what the future looks like as someone going into ministry. When we were asked to pray over the batons and pick up how many we felt God putting on our heart, I was thinking of this one student, and she was on my mind during that time. My leaders and I spent time praying over this baton and were excited for the evening session. Little did we know that God was going to wreck our plans in the best way possible. As I stood up to wait for our students, I had one come up that surprised me. Then two, three, four, five, six came up. The moment I walked over and asked for five more batons, I was in utter shock. I knew that God was going to move within our group this week, but never on this scale. That evening I got to hear our students tell their friends about the decision they made and the passion for serving Jesus. The last day comes around, and I have another student come and ask if I had any more batons. So I asked CIY staff and gave it to the student. This was my fourth year bringing students to move. And when I was a student at Move, I also made the decision to go into ministry. So this literal passing of the baton was one of the coolest things I have seen God do within our group. Thank you, CIY, for always providing opportunities for students to see Jesus and experience what being his disciple looks like. Thank you, Shaley Bradshaw. Logan Sperry is here with me today. He's on our church relations team. That's a good story. This is a great story. Oh my gosh. Thank you, Shaley, for sharing. Thank you for sharing sharing Shaley. You got through it. I really I really didn't know if I was going to. You got through it. I got through it.
SPEAKER_01:You know what I really liked? I well, I just like hearing about all these cities in the state of Illinois that are like French named cities where you pronounce the S.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sorry. Shaley Bradshaw from Lakeridge Christian Church in Petty.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Yep. Illinois. Did you know there's also like a Louisville, Illinois? Yeah. Spelled the same way as Louisville, Kentucky.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we can't talk because we have a Versailles, Kentucky. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01:So but Louisville's Louisville does it right.
SPEAKER_02:Louisville does it right, I guess. So anyway, that's that that's a good story. Logan, uh you you felt the call to go into ministry and a move, right?
SPEAKER_03:I did, yeah, actually. Um I went all five years that I could to move uh as a high school student. My fur my first event was uh actually a believe. Oh shout out believe. Like, oh my gosh, hey, if you want no, I'm just kidding. I'm gonna start so if you want believe back, send an email to podcast and see why to go. No, I'm just kidding. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. There are I want to there are actually people who I still talk about. There are still people I talk to who are like, hey, believe. But uh my first event actually was a believe, and then I went to move all five years that I could, and uh made the decision to get baptized um at a move, um, and and and actually follow Jesus with my life, and then made the decision to go into ministry at a move, and then came back the year after and had to remake that decision to go into ministry because the first time I was like, ah, really was that was that really the Holy Spirit? And then the second time it was like, yeah, that's really the Holy Spirit making uh that call in my life. So yeah, um, I did, and then rest is history.
SPEAKER_02:It's cool to get to get back to an organization that like changed. I mean, I have the same story where it's like this place changed my life, and now I get to work here. Yeah, it's the best thing in the world, anyway. Yep. Um Logan, you work with a lot of our new churches on our church relations team. You love them really well. Most of the people I feel like who listen to this podcast probably fall more into the like we've been around CIY for a while kind of thing. So I wanted to ask you this question because I feel like maybe there are times you know when I I I experienced this when I lived in Colorado for a little while, where it's like I live right next to the Rocky Mountains and it they rock. They're so cool. Uh no opponent to that. Um Brad Brad claims three states.
SPEAKER_03:He's like, I'm from Florida, Kentucky, and Colorado.
SPEAKER_02:That's well, we can we can do any of them, really, because like truly and he calls it Florado from Florado who's running this right now. What is going on?
SPEAKER_03:I personally like having producer Michael be more a part of what's happening here. He's antagonizing me. He's not, he's not, you know. You know what the interesting thing is, you don't claim Missouri and you've lived here for eight years. Why is that?
SPEAKER_04:Would you like to answer that question for me?
SPEAKER_01:Oof.
SPEAKER_02:I cla I claim Missouri.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway, next to the Rocky Mountains, they rock.
SPEAKER_02:What I was saying is the Rocky Mountains are beautiful, but you live in Colorado for a while and you kind of like forget that they're there, you know? So I I want to know you have new churches coming in, and you have these churches that have been around a while that they kind of know how CIY goes, they know how Move goes or Mix goes or Superstar goes and an engaged trip goes. When these new churches come in, what is it that they're like pleasantly surprised by that maybe those of us who have been around CIY for a long time, myself included, might be taking for granted. You know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, totally. I you know, um and I say this too as somebody who obviously works for CIY and has gone to a countless number of events now now at this point over the years. Yeah. Um like, okay, for instance, Superstart, for example, every year. I don't know why. I never know why this gets me. But I always like there's if you if you've ever attended one of our superstart events, or if not, I'll explain to you. There's always like a moment in one of the sessions where something goes wrong. And I'm air quoting that for those of you on video. For those of you not on video, I'm air quoting that super hard. There's some something that goes wrong. It really it's a part of it's a part of it. It's a part of the whole thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's like something has to break so that we can all work together to fix it. To fix it.
SPEAKER_03:And we learn a biblical truth from this, right? And we share or we share the gospel because of it, and or talk about what it means to be a kingdom worker. And it always without fail, I'm like, oh no, the button stopped working. Like it it I'm like, it's broken. What do we and I one time in St. Louis got up out of my seat. I hadn't seen, hadn't seen an event yet. Got up out of my seat and was like, what do we do? Well, Patrick was like, hey, buddy. You've been here like, I don't know, 40 times. Well what do you think?
SPEAKER_02:Youth pastors will do this too, because it's like when we were at Indiana two years ago when we were talking about unscripted, the wheel of emotions breaks. Like that's the big thing. And Ann Wilson came like running back to front of house, the the next gen pastor at Traders Point, and was like, what can we do to help get this solved?
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no. We're good, we're it's gonna be it'll be fine. We're gonna solve it. We're on it. So that is to demonstrate a point of like uh I would say like the intentionality that those on our content team take to creating an age-intentional event. I feel like I me personally, I talk to a lot of people who maybe this is their first time going to an a truly age-intentional event. That's a big part of what we do. Move is clearly high school, mix is clearly middle school, uh, superstar is clearly preteen, and so it's like, oh, like actually seeing the content play out in that way, and it's like, yeah, oh yeah, you really did gear that for my middle school student. Or you really did gear that for my preteen student. That and I think the the focus of students being kingdom workers is like, I love that you guys do that. Like, that's what I always feel like I hear from new people is like, I love that my students get to see themselves represented on stage through a video or maybe actu an actual moment, an on-stage moment, or whatever that may be in any given year, and that we really like double down on. We want students to see themselves doing real life kingdom work so that they're like, oh, that is a real thing that I can do in my daily life. And so I feel like those things, maybe if you've been around a while, you're like used to that. Yeah, you're like, yeah, students do this. And for some others, it's like, I I love that my students get to see that. That's cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love that. Um, well, we are we're we're we're we're gonna go talk to Tito in a second. We have a new segment on the podcast, it's called Miked Up, where Michael, producer Michael, gets to talk about anything that he wants. I love this. And we get to we're gonna put it on.
SPEAKER_03:I have been saying for years we just need more.
SPEAKER_02:Give the man. Give the man some time. Let him cook. Give him room to breathe. Okay, so before we talk to Tito, let's do Mic'ed Up.
SPEAKER_01:Uh Brad did let me cook this week. Um, I cooked dinner for our small group. It didn't turn out the way I did. Wait, hold on, what'd you make? Um I I I and this isn't it. This is about this is about to turn into a whole thing. Yeah, it's gonna turn into a whole thing. This isn't this isn't even what I actually intended on talking about. There's a different thing that I do want to say this. Yeah, I'll wait out. You said let him cook and I just you know but I I made um I I made what I called counterfeit carbonara. Whoa. My family has a tradition every Christmas we eat this thing that we call spaghetti and eggs. It's like scrambled eggs with spaghetti noodles, essentially. But like there's an actual Italian dish called Carbonara. Yeah, like the pasta sauce is made from eggs. Yeah. And so I did something that was a little bit more of a gussied-up version of what spaghetti and eggs is. It ended up not being nearly as tasty as it is when I make it myself. I liked it, yeah. It was edible. It just wasn't, I was disappointed.
SPEAKER_02:But I don't know, like I don't know what the I don't know what I enjoyed my meal, but for somebody who's like had it before, you know, it's like, oh yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Before we get, I want you to get to what you really want to talk about, Michael. I do have to say, spaghetti and eggs is is a wild thing to just hear about hey, yeah. My family just eats spaghetti and eggs. I'd be like, hey, I have a lot of questions. Most people's reaction is that or gross.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I said at one point, hey, this kind of has like pad thai vibes. Like it had the wide noodles and like the thingy. Yeah. And uh Pikel said, You're besmirching my Italian food. And I was like, Well, it's not even Italian. So Italian American. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Love it. Yeah. Um, okay, hey, I would love to make a couple of album recommendations. Oh, okay. Album recommendations. These are worship albums, okay, because it's a question podcast. Oh, okay. So not in the life of a showbird. But but a couple episodes ago, um, I talked about how um how much I think oceans deserve some more respect, and Brad and I argued about it for a little bit. Like the Song Oceans? The Song Oceans. Yeah, sorry, not the seven C's. Love it. But Oceans by Hillsong United. Yeah, this guy. Yeah. Hillsong United. Everyone but you, Brad.
SPEAKER_02:That's how it's gone so far.
SPEAKER_03:You didn't like you know were you like at the time?
SPEAKER_02:No, at the time I loved it. Yeah. But I just thought you've turned on it. We murdered it. We just beat it to a pulp. It's no, it's no longer banger status for me because it's just like we don't need to do it all.
SPEAKER_01:If you want to hear a more fleshed out version of this conversation, you can go to season five, episode one, listen, listen to it there. Anyway, um, two albums I would love to recommend because in talking about oceans and like songs that deserve a comeback, in my opinion. There's an album that was sent to me earlier this year. Apparently, it came out on my birthday.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, Michael.
SPEAKER_01:Um this album is called Foundations by an artist called Worship Circle, which is really more of like a collective artist or whatever. Okay. Um and it's it's a bunch of like worship leaders that all like you've probably like heard of them if you pay very much attention to most mostly like the bigger churches that put out albums. This album is made up of um more sort of contemporized, if I can say that, if that makes sense, um stripped down versions of classic contemporary worship music. Okay. Let me read a few of the songs that you'll find in this album.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna be singing here in a minute.
SPEAKER_01:The first the first open the opening track is Open the Eyes of My Heart. Yes. Yeah, good one. Featuring Paul Below. I think that's how you say his name. Um the second one we're coming out swinging, okay? Yeah. After open the eyes of my heart, we go to step by step inside. Yeah, a hundred percent. Uh We Fall Down is a little bit later. Um then Your Grace is enough.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah after that.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, in case you're listening and you didn't know, it is his grace is enough. It is enough, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And Chris Tomlin still goes hard in the paint.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I mean, just like just like how Legolas takes one small bite of the limbus spread and it's enough to fill the stomach of a of a fully grown man. His grace is enough. Yeah, no, I got that. That was Lord of the Rings. Marvelous Light. I know featuring Charlie Hall. Okay. Okay. Yeah, can you believe it? Anyway, um, go check out. I'm gonna be so honest, I don't know who Charlie Hall is, but I'm pretty sure he's that guy that that sang Marvelous Light the first time, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I believe you. Um anyway, we did that one when I was in high school. Go listen, go listen to Foundations by Worship Circle. It's a live album. It's a great time. When I've been down in the dumps, and I've been down in some dumps, it's a good it's a good album to listen to. Do you want to talk about that? No, I'm just saying, like, like it's like it's been a good one to listen to, you know. Good. Um the second album.
SPEAKER_02:Mike'd up. Mike's gonna tell us about his dumps. The dumps that I'm doing. Okay. Hey, hey.
SPEAKER_01:Uh wow. Spaghetti and eggs, everybody.
SPEAKER_04:Dump number one.
SPEAKER_01:Joplin, Missouri. Um, that's not true. I love living in Joplin. I'm this is actually my home. He's from here.
SPEAKER_03:When people are like, so like, yeah, you're in Joplin, and I'm like, yeah, I'm from Joplin.
SPEAKER_01:Like, I'm a person here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I live here. Yeah, you're a Joplinite. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:As is producer Lauren. 17 years. As is producer Lauren. Web City High School. Come on, somebody.
SPEAKER_01:It's a joke. I'm not trying to actually dump on Joplin. Anyway, the second album, okay. This one is called This Is My Meditation by an artist called Middlebrook Music. There's a little bit of bias here. Okay. Because I have a brother that was part of this album. It also came out earlier this year. My brother Steven. He's on staff at a church in Knoxville, Tennessee. Fellowship Christian.
SPEAKER_02:Fellowship Knoxville, shout out.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Shout out. The road that that church is on is Middlebrook. Something. I don't know, Middlebrook something. Clever, I like it. Um so they released an album earlier this year. Um, and I quite enjoy it. Every song is written from like a like specific scripture. Um I'm here for that. And there there's been plenty of times where like I'll be like, you know, in my own like personal devotional time reading in the Psalms or something, and I'll read a line and I'll be like, that is in that one song.
SPEAKER_02:That's where that's where David got it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Seriously, David, a big Metalbrook fan. Um anyway, there's just there's a few songs on here that are that are big highlights for me. Um the biggest highlight written by Stephen Hester. Sufficient. Shout out. Go listen to it. Sufficient? Sufficient.
SPEAKER_02:Written by Stephen Hester, incredible stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I will be listening to those albums, Michael, and maybe next uh time or an episode in the future I can report back to you.
SPEAKER_01:Not the next one because there won't be enough time.
SPEAKER_02:No, there will not.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for that, producer Michael. I'll I will also say one more little tag on top of that. There are instrumental versions if you listen to the deluxe album. There are instrumental versions of the songs. I like to listen to those from time to time when I'm doing my own little quiet times. So, you know. That if you're looking for new worship music, check those out.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, I am I am.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, are you just are you an instrumental guy, Brad?
SPEAKER_02:I I am an instrumental music guy. Okay. I told Michael yesterday that sitting in a dark room and listening to the interstellar score is my favorite movie. Like I don't even need the movie.
SPEAKER_03:It's just burned in your brain like Matthew McConaughey hitting on the like window. Yeah. It's just like I don't even I don't even need to watch the movie. I just know. Like it's just there. Okay. Uh hey, thank you for the music recommendations. For for for all of you people out there, go go revisit JHB, some Jordan Howerton band. Oh. In case. Just like give it a listen. I was listening to it the other day. Still hits. Shout out, shout out Jordan Howerton. Shout out Jordan Howerton band. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh still great worship music. Do you want to sing us one of the songs?
SPEAKER_03:Move, man.
SPEAKER_02:No, I can't do it. He's being silly, but Logan actually has a beautiful voice. Fun fact, everybody. All right. On that note, uh, let's go talk to Tito. Tito Lozano, all the way from Smyrna. Am I saying that right? Uh Antioch. Antioch. Yeah. You're not you guys aren't in Smyrna?
SPEAKER_00:No, we're in. We do have a campus in Smyrna.
SPEAKER_02:You have a campus in Smyrna? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but we're located in Antioch, which is just like 30 minutes down the road.
SPEAKER_02:So I d but still I want to know if I'm saying it right. Smy Smyrna Yeah, Smyrna. Yes, sir. Smyrna. Smyrna. Okay, anyway. How you doing today? I'm doing great. How about you guys? Yeah. Good. Is your fall off to a great start at Lakeshore Christian Church? It is.
SPEAKER_00:Busy, but uh fun and and really good, actually.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. What does your guys like uh launch into fall programming look like?
SPEAKER_00:Um we started off with just like a family night. Um, invite all the families, kind of get them a vision of what what the plan is for the school year, give some food, because that's how you get anybody to show up to anything is food. Um so yeah, so just that, and then we kick off with our you know, with the lesson, with the series and stuff like that. But we normally kick it off with a good old family night and have everybody invite their friends, eat some good food, and set the tone and the vision for uh the upcoming school year.
SPEAKER_02:So, what did you do for dinner for your fall cook-off? I'm just curious. I always hear what people like cook for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00:So for the first one, we just did pizza, just because it was simple. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But classic. I have it lined up. So like this month we're doing tacos and nachos. Um, next month, October is gonna be a chili cook-off, I think, between both campuses, our Smyrna campus and Enia campus. We'll have just a big old chili cook-off and do some prizes, have some fun with it. Still setting that one up. November is my favorite big old Thanksgiving meal. And then in December, we just do uh PJs and breakfast kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02:So heck yeah. So the the church that Logan and I and Michael um go to, and producer Lauren off camera, um they do wow, we all go to CCO in here. That's crazy. Uh they do dinner every Wednesday night before uh youth group, and they have about five things that they rotate between. And when I tell you that like the amount of excitement that I have to go to youth group on any given night depends on what they are serving.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what's your least favorite?
SPEAKER_02:So my least favorite, this is controversial. My least favorite is the taquitos.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no, that's not controversial.
SPEAKER_01:The Wednesday night teeth.
SPEAKER_03:That's not controversial?
SPEAKER_01:No, that's not controversial for all of you out there.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, for Tyler Bate, if you're listening.
SPEAKER_01:This just played the Lauren Bryan. They changed him.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, great. Well, then I may have to revise all the power things, but my favorite is the chicken sandwich. That's your favorite. No, no, I love the I love the chicken sandwich.
SPEAKER_03:I like here's the deal. Tacos and nachos, Tito, that's what I want. Well, we don't do that. No, I'm saying that.
SPEAKER_02:But that's what I'm saying is we like are always on a rotation.
SPEAKER_03:So and I'm telling you that Tito's got it figured out.
SPEAKER_02:He's got it figured out, man.
SPEAKER_00:Do you guys just cater it or is it family participation kind of how do you guys do that? There's like a volunteer team that yeah, makes it all.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Cool, cool. Yeah. So pulled pork rocks. Anyway, that's not what any of us came here to talk about.
SPEAKER_01:The taquitos are the Sunday taquitos now.
SPEAKER_02:The so okay. Yeah. But don't go to church on that Sunday. I have a feeling that the listeners are getting very bored with the taquito talk, but it is self-indulgent and it's great. Um well, Tito, no, the taquitos were different on Sunday than they were on Wednesdays, but now they're the same. Okay. Um, let's talk about something better. It's re it matters a lot to us. You know what's better than taquitos? Jesus.
SPEAKER_03:You're getting so good at your transition.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Um, so Tito, we tossed out a question to you, said, hey, which which do you feel like is more important for um the place your ministry is at right now? Are we more in more focused on creating intentional student-only spaces? Or are we more focused on integrating students into the I keep saying big church. That's why I say the same thing. Which is so funny that that like stuck.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like I don't even know what to call it anymore. But everybody like knows what you're talking about. I know. So I might as well I'm leaning in. Okay. So um Yeah, so I'm I'm curious. We'll just start the conversation in the easiest place to start it, which is why did you say what you said? Why are why are you like, heck yeah, I'm super passionate about intentional student only spaces.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I picked um intentional student space only, or not only, but because it's just it's a welcoming, it's just a welcoming place. Um, and it's something that I've been working on recently. We've had the room. I've been the youth pastor here for seven years, and we've always had um two specific student rooms. One is kind of like our open gym area. Play basketball, kick the balls, don't worry if we put a hole in the wall, something like that. And then we have our youth room where I do the lesson, we used to have a worship band. Um, and both areas have been great. And both areas are places that the students feel familiar with and can kind of set up their own way so they just feel more comfortable. Um but here's recently our youth room when I do my lessons, I've kind of set it up as a um the stage, as a lounge. So I got couches, bean bags, TVs, um, kind of, and then let them decorate it. Like one of the funniest things I did was I had them clean the whole room, but I told them if they clean it, they can decorate it the way they want to. So they were like super happy to clean. Um, as long as they get to decorate, and honestly, it's a win for me because I don't know how to decorate anything. My wife doesn't let me touch anything at home. Um yeah, so so they get to come here, they get to be like, okay, this is not only a space where I feel comfortable and feel like I can invite my friends, but it's something that I feel like is personable to me because they've had touches into it into setting things up and personal personalizing it the way they want to do it.
SPEAKER_02:So the uh the ownership piece I think is like kind of a big deal that I honestly hadn't really thought about is like if you have a student-only space, you can give students a bit more ownership about not only the physical, we can talk more about the physical space, but more like what happens there, you know, like uh student student-centric programming. Um have you had like do you have kind of a uh a core group of students who you feel like have been able to hit their stride like within that space and be like, have you seen, I guess what I'm asking is have you seen some like leadership kind of naturally rise to the top since you have all these kids kind of meeting in one place all the time together?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. I know specifically when we um break off into small groups, my um female adult leaders have let me know that they actually go on stage now, sit on the couch, kind of get on the beanbags, and they feel like the students open up more. They just feel a little bit more comfortable, a little bit more relaxed. It's not like uh, hey, we're all in a circle on a chair, share your you know, darkest secrets. It's hey, we're all here, we're all chilling, and they just naturally open up. On Sunday mornings, I've noticed it where even sometimes, if it's not a lot of us um here on a Sunday morning, a lot of them will be like, Can we do the lesson on stage um where the couches are? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. So they I could tell that they they want they want it um and they just feel more comfortable. It feels less um organized, which um organized isn't bad, but sometimes it's you get some of those best conversations um when that little organization is um not there as much.
SPEAKER_02:When yeah, when you're able to lay your guard down a little bit, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So um so I wanna I wanna talk about a couple of the pieces of of pushback, I guess, that I would feel like somebody would have to this and have some pretty extensive conversations about them because I know these are things that you care about, and so I want to like make sure that we flesh this out a little bit. Um the first is I think a lot of people want to push students into like adult ministry spaces, big church, so to speak, um in order to uh have them create like a spiritual connection with their families. And two would be I want to give students a chance to serve, which I can do easier by like stripping away some of the student ministry programming and pushing them to get involved in what happens here on a Sunday morning or a Wednesday night. Um so yeah, I don't know where we want to start with that, if one of those kind of jumps out to you or the other, but those are things that I kind of want to hit on because those are the kind of the, you know, that that's the counterargument to all of this, and I want to just talk through that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:No, I I agree with both with both those things. Um so we actually go into big church the last Sunday of every month. Um, because I do agree that um even though this is super important to have their own specific room, I do think it's you know, it's still my part to introduce them to big church. I know we keep using that language, but because once, you know, once they graduate from high school, they don't this, you know, they don't have this anymore. So we try to get them familiar with being in there. But we've tried both things where it's just like, hey, we're not gonna have, you know, for a whole month we didn't have a youth group, and we just threw them in there and it almost got forced. Um they didn't they didn't really like it. They were already coming in there with bad attitudes because it's like, why don't we have a youth group? Uh so then when we strip it down to one one Sunday a month, I feel like they already knew what's coming, they're like mentally prepared, they're fine with it. Um, you know, there's always gonna be some kids that are trying to sneak into the youth room and have to open it up, and there's somebody just chilling in here and have to kick them back out. But um, it it is important to introduce them to go in there, though. Like, um, whether it's for family time or just even to get familiar with listening to you know the head pastor. I feel like if they go here, they should definitely be familiar with who the head pastor is, his sermons, all those things. Um, so it is important on that end. And then the volunteering part is I also try to have them volunteer at least one once every other month. Um, try to get them plugged into Tempu, to the childcare. Because I'm the middle school and high school are the only ones that go into um big church for the last Sunday of the month. Other than that, it's the fifth Sunday for our church. So on the fifth Sunday every month, which only falls like three or four times a year, um, all our kid programs are shut down, and everybody like the whole thing is like everybody go sit in there with your family and stuff like that. And then um, shoot, did I answer both of them right there? Or did Yeah, no, you didn't. I just sounded like you were gonna use something else, but just to add to the volunteer part, um, as much as I love to volunteer, I do try to spread it out, spread it out because um one time we had students that were volunteering all the time, and I realized that the specific students that were doing that, um, they didn't invite their friends as much or they didn't come with other people because um it was kind of hard for them to uh invite people when they were running the tech booth or when they were doing stuff like that. So I did notice that if they chose to volunteer every single time instead of switching it up a little bit.
SPEAKER_03:Um Tito, I'm curious now, like as you I've heard you talking, how how do you run like programming through the year? So it sounds, I mean, it sounds like you have Sunday morning programming for students. Um what what else does your programming kind of look like throughout the year?
SPEAKER_00:So we have our typical Sunday morning, um, which is junior or high school students first service at nine, and then our middle school students at second service during 11 o'clock. And then Wednesday night is both middle school and high school together, but we do split all off for small groups and stuff like that. Then we we split off between high school girls, high school guys.
SPEAKER_03:So is your Wednesday night programming are students the only ones like coming to church that night or does your or does the like the adult programming and things like that?
SPEAKER_00:No, it's just our our students on Wednesdays.
SPEAKER_03:Got it. So you've got so you've got like that student only space Wednesday night where it's like, hey, this is our thing. Like this is youth group. And then on Sunday mornings you're talking through like, hey, we can plug you in a few Sundays to to volunteer to go to big church and not just have I'm guessing so Wednesday night too is like classic youth group. Yeah, that's right. And then Sunday morning is like Bible study focused type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.
SPEAKER_02:So a lot of churches I do kind of want to talk about the physical space a little bit more because I feel like a lot of churches that are the size of Lakeshore are not often able to like have the flexibility with their space that you guys have had and are not often able to like set aside a spot and be like yo this is junior high and high school this is a place that they have an ownership of this is a place where they can feel comfortable. Was that something I'm I just want to know if that was something that you like inherited at Lake Shore. And I know you grew up at at Lakeshore too, right? So maybe you remember a time when this wasn't true, but like is that something that you inherited or is that something that you had to like fight for a little bit and be yeah definitely inherited um we've been blessed with that.
SPEAKER_00:You know the room the room would be used for some other stuff once in a while or something like that. But it never to where it interferes with the way we can set things up or um with me using my space. But luckily it's always been like that. We've inherited it. So and they've been pretty good with um letting me kind of do what I want in here and you know get let the students do things and so as long as we don't burn the building down. Yeah there you go.
SPEAKER_03:Tito I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit is there a way that you would encourage somebody who doesn't have like a dedicated youth group space hey here's maybe a way that you can because I feel like one of the benefits just hearing you talk is you talked about like hey we're gonna clean this room but then you get to decorate this room all your own but they they feel a sense of ownership and I think that there's there's just something to like your church home where when you are there like when you really feel a part of your church like you're like this is an extent this is an extension of my home. Like I know the people here. I want to take care of it. I'm a part yeah and I want to take care of it. I want to like I care or I have buy-in like you mentioned ownership I care about this thing. How would you encourage somebody who'd like maybe they don't have a dedicated youth space to like still cultivate that a little bit within the their students at their church? Yeah so trying to so like if they don't have a room like what can they do instead of that or if you're yeah how would you how would you help them still feel like they you know are a part of the ownership in in the space in their church.
SPEAKER_00:I think just I mean just letting them have even if you don't have your own room I feel like when they have input um whether it's what you know one thing that I did to set up this school year really well is at the end of last uh school year I kind of did like a survey of like what are some things you want to learn, what are some things you want to add what are some things you want to take away um and they really enjoyed that. So I kind of gave them their time to do that. No pressure was like you don't have to put your name on if you like this Wednesday night sucks. I don't like the speaker which is me like do do whatever you want just I want to be able to be here for you. So I think when you do stuff like that, even if you don't have a specific room if you feel like you're giving them um a voice um where they feel like they can add um something to the youth group they really they really enjoy that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah it's a good show is uh has there ever been anything on there that like surprised you that ended up being like a really really good idea it's like someone asked for this and I was like oh dang I gotta actually do that. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:So I've recently just started doing it like the last two years. Nothing crazy it has been great though like it's it's definitely set up this school year um really well. But yeah surprisingly especially with some of the students I have nothing crazy or nothing even negative like nothing even too negative. Even when they were being a little negative they're like no we still like it but this could be better or this and that.
SPEAKER_03:So that's fine it's been it's like they're at you gave them agency and they're giving you like actual good feedback. Yeah it yeah it's like so it's I interested you with this and you came through. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02:But also like sometimes it's not even like I'm thinking about every year our boss Jason French president of this organization sits down with every single employee here and it's like just ask him hey how is working here you know and he wants to hear from all of us about that. And I very rarely go in there maybe never have gone in there with anything like a major that I'm like this has to change right now or I'm gonna come unglued. You know what I mean? But you go in there and you're like hey it would be nice if whatever this kind of thing or whatever. But it's not even it's not even that like I'm kind of manipulating myself a little bit here but it's not even that he's like taking my feedback and implementing it. It's just that like hey the president of this organization is making time to hear what I have to say. Like there's something just different about the psychology of that that I think is also really important for students where it's like they don't want to go to another place where they like walk into a classroom and it's set up exactly how the teacher wants it to be set up and they go home and they have to keep their room clean and whatever and can't paint the walls the color that they want to paint the walls because they're painting you know those kinds of things but like just saying like hey you can have some input in this whether or not the input is actually even that you know earth shattering is still just like a really good thing I feel like I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And like you said, you know we're not always gonna do what they what they ask but it does help to listen. And then when you do something that they maybe put on the list I mean that's super impactful. They're like oh I I gave that suggestion. Like they listen it's not just another oh just write something down it's not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah but yeah I I I love it because it's like whether you have a space whether you don't if you one of the things to at least consider is like if you give your students agency you give them ownership of whatever it is we are doing as a church meeting at this time or this time in this space or this space if I if I can offer that then they feel a part of it and that is a win.
SPEAKER_02:Well and that can help really cut down on some of the like consumerism that you see with like youth ministry too where it's like I go to this church because they put on a program that I really like. I go to this church because I enjoy being here on a Wednesday night. And it it becomes less about like what they're offering you and just more about hey what am I contributing to this place? What am I how am I making this into a place not only that I would want to be but that I would feel comfortable you know inviting my my friends and my family to um it's just a really cool thing. Uh I feel I sidetracked myself and I've got to think of the question that I was going to ask my brain hurts. I'm gonna be so honest with you guys I have a massive headache today. Okay. Let's uh talk really quick just about um kind of your dreams for this uh I I know um you're talking about how like the physical space I kind of want to set that aside for a second I feel like we've had a chance to to talk about that quite a bit but um talk more about kind of the the spiritual space that you uh create for students and um you value like intentional programming obviously you have programming that is just for middle school you have programming that is just for high school even the programming that you have that is for middle school and high school together you're splitting up into the uh small groups that are based based on age and uh and gender and whatever else so um I just want to know like how when you look down the road it's like how do I want to continue to lean into this idea that I'm creating spaces that are intentionally like for these students.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah along with those you know space like the intentional part when um first thing I think about when you we keep talking about like the intentional program, intentional spaces whatever it is um is the adult leaders I bring with me. That's kind of been my big um goal that I have is because you know one way I like to minister is I think about how I was impacted when I was in middle school and high school. And a big way of that was not only my youth pastor but the adult leaders that I had around me. They just poured so much into my life outside of a Wednesday and Sunday. So I try to do that. If I can encourage my um adult leaders to go to a volleyball game, to go to a soccer game, to go to all these things and make it to where my ministry is beyond the building beyond the physical space and beyond a Wednesday night and a Sunday morning then you know that's a win. They remember those moments. I love my youth pastor but I can't tell you a single sermon that he did um when I was in middle school and high school but I can tell you the count you know countless stories and memories um where they were there for me where they were born into me where they picked me up because I didn't have a ride to school or what thousands of stories that I can share. And they still stick with me to this day. So I'm trying to do that for our students as well. And that you know I can't do that by myself. So it's awesome to have those great volunteers and adult leaders with me to to be able to help me out in that end.
SPEAKER_02:Well yeah and and like all of those places that you're asking them to go are also places that are like intentionally created for them. It's like we're going to your high school soccer game or we're going to this show choir concert or whatever. Show choir is such a big deal here it's crazy. So Lauren were you in show choir producer Lauren not in show choir fun fact. But anyway like yeah those spaces are intentionally designed for students and I think not only um like that's an interesting aspect of this is we're not only inviting students into a space that we've created intentionally for them but also the places that they kind of naturally find themselves that we are willing to go into which it's like what other reason would there be for a 35 year old man to go to a Web City high school soccer game? Not any great ones probably but the fact that I like love these kids and I'm willing to to go and do that or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah that's really neat man. Yeah Tito I like that I mean you hit on something that or you said this and it made me think where you're like the things that I remember when I was a student were not any of the sermons that my youth pastor preached but you know all these other asides right it's like picking me up those things. And I was like just for a minute it was like do I remember and I was like no shot no shot do I remember anything that my you I mean may maybe one sermon I could pick out you know of a hundred or so but the things that I do remember are like the conversations at what we used to call like fourth meal after youth group. And it's I feel like one of the things you're t like touching on is and you've you kind of said this earlier it's like not the organization is bad but like we need a little bit of unstructure and that's kind of what they want. They want the comfortability to just like let their hair down and it's like sometimes in those unstructured moments where it's like we're just getting a meal we're doing that is like the most intentional student space there can be when I'm meeting them where they're at at their game, at their school having having a small group over like I feel like you know those volunteers that just like plug in and just jump right into like I'm just a part of your life like I'll be at your things you know really make a lot of headway in relationships I feel like with students because it's like I'm gonna enter into your space that is maybe disorganized and unstructured and not just youth group. So I I I like how much you've hit on that aspect of like sometimes this is just what it looks like for us in our ministry.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think um I think it is kind of an interesting thing to think about like when we talk about integrating students into like a big church I drive myself crazy every time I say it. But integrating students kind of into that adult programming I think what we're saying is hey we want you to know what it is like to be a part of this congregation as a whole so that when you get to the next phase of life this is something that feels familiar to you. But within that there is a lot of structure like what we're asking them to do is like hey you're gonna go volunteer in this kindergarten room and you're gonna do this lesson plan with this teacher and this kind of thing and then you're gonna go to this service and it goes exactly like this and then you know like there is a lot of of rigidity to that that I don't think is bad but I am intrigued by this idea that it's just like hey when we have our own space we don't have to play by all those rules we can just kind of to use Logan's expression let our hair down and and and dive into this so um I'm I'm wondering though you talk about once a month we're doing this we're inviting them into to big church what has it been like for you you've been here seven years now what have you noticed with your students coming out of your program and kind of the ethos the culture of the program that you have there and moving on to that next phase of life moving on to trade school work to college maybe they stay in Antioch maybe they go somewhere else I don't know but like what what how have you seen this kind of like help prepare students for whatever's next yeah I was actually about that recently um it's gone it's gone okay it's gone it's gone decent I've seen a lot of students that when they come back from college they are going into Sunday service they're not trying to you know I used to have at first some kids are trying to linger back.
SPEAKER_00:I'm like no you are you're too old like go in there. But now I feel like and that was before we were going into the services and stuff like that. Now they are pretty familiar with it. They go in there and um one thing that I do wish um is just seeing more um you know just for them to join life groups or something like that afterwards. And then I know this is probably switching the gear just um but just the you know sometimes it does seem then it's like oh you know I'm back into college I'll go in here I'll listen to the pastor for an hour um and then go back to my to my day-to-day life um so I've seen that's why I say it's like 50-50. It's like I'm glad that they are familiar with it and they're comfortable with going going into Sunday service. But what else can they join after that? You know how can I get them into a life group? How can I get them more connected with people in the congregation other than just you know sitting down listening to the pastor and going back home or going back to college and stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Some of that answered I can can we can we answer some of those questions that you just asked there like how how do you do that? How do because like the flip side of this argument I think a lot of that is like built in like you're you're showing them when they're in high school this is what it looks like to volunteer this is what it looks like to go to service this is how you would get plugged into a small group so you're saying like well we still want to make sure that all those things happen how do we help students who have left our program make that happen so I'm gonna turn that question back on you if that's okay and be like okay how have you done that you know yeah I think um once so how we say that question one more time. Yeah at the end of your the last thing you said you were just like kind of listing off this list of questions like how do I help students get plugged into a small group how do I help students get involved serving how do I help them want to go to to to big church like how so I want to answer those questions is basically what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00:So oh yeah I got you so yeah just um just getting them connected with just more people I guess it it really does come down to connection because sometimes we try to solve one issue with like something else. So sometimes we just like okay how do we get kids to continue going to um big church after they graduate and then our answer sometimes is just make them go and they'll get familiar with it. And you know but it's we have to do more than that. We have to it all comes down just like a Wednesday night and Sunday morning program it all comes down to connections. So how can we you know get them connected with people um just that's my job. That's my job that's my adult leader's job. And one way of doing it is you know what I bring up now is like hey I'm telling you to to take you know your small group um serious and I'm gonna show you how and then I tell them about my life group. I tell them how I go to a certain life group on you know every Thursday and how my life group helps me out when I'm down, if I'm sick, you know, if I need prayers. So I just try to you know show them that I'm living the life that I'm telling them to um to do. So just leading by example I guess long story short just leading by example um also if I'm seeing like a fellow student that graduated he's coming in Sunday but I don't see anything else that's my job as well to go talk to him. Go be like hey are you you know plugged in somewhere? Sometimes we can just be like oh you know they got it or I'm not their youth pastor anymore and I want to smother them and it's like no no no you're you know they're always going to be my students um and it's always going to be my responsibility and other people in the church to guide them to be like hey join my join join my life uh my life group join my Bible study all these different things. So being intentional again and just not waiting for them to ask but for me to go up to them and just start that conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think that's such an important reminder kind of as we wrap up a little bit here that you know the relationship aspect no matter where you fall on this spectrum the relational piece is non-negotiable and it's like I think those relationships have to develop no matter which side of it you're on. But the fact that you're saying like you have to be willing to I don't know I think for a youth pastor it would be easy to be like okay this kid graduated now they're no longer my responsibility especially in bigger churches where it's like a little bit more um systematic um at times um but saying like no if if we're gonna have age intentional programming for junior high and high school students then when they get to the next phase I have to do the work of like helping them figure out what that next phase looks like. So I think that's a really cool thing. Logan are we leaving anything on the table before I wrap up here you got anything in your brain that you gotta get out if not it's okay. Hmm I just I w you know I thought I'd give you one last chance.
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah I got one more thing I was thinking about this was right so as a parent I've I've you know one of the the big thing we're discussing is f is fighting that like line of how do I get you know I want my daughter to be a part of the programming that is going on specifically for her at our church. However I don't want her to miss out on like our collective church gathering that I do feel like is important and I want and I want her to like uh you know I think one of the things we can get worried about at times is like that we haven't prepared a student to like get to big church you know we keep saying it I'm just gonna say it you know that we haven't that we haven't prepared a student to get to big church right it's so I'm like okay I feel like I'm I'm a live in the gray person on a on a lot of different things and so like this is it feels like it lives lives in the gray like how do we strike the balance of they go to their stuff because that's important but they're also a part of big church because that's important. Yeah. But like how, Tito do you talk to parents um about that like about that line of you know it's important for them to be here but it's also important for them to maybe be a part of big church. How do you address that with parents?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah um it's I love that we have two services um sometimes the parents uh don't like this part but um just saying hey you know first service come to you know if you had a high school student come you know drop your kid off um try to plug them into a study that's going on as well Sunday morning it's like hey the parents you can stay here um with this Bible study that's going on Sunday morning while your student joins me and then second service as a family you guys can go into um big church together um because I've had that happen before where they've wanted to stay or um you know they want to do that together. They want to go in there together but they do want our their students to be in there and we've opened that up some of them are like I'm not saying two services just you got me for one hour and you better do the most but some but some do enjoy that some do um especially when they feel like it and a lot of it really does come down to the kid. If you get that kid if you can show like if I can get a kid to come in here and see that there's gonna be other kids um and set it up and they start saying hey mom hey dad I want I really want to go in there a lot of the times you know the parent will make that sacrifice to to uh allow their children to come into the youth only um space but then also stay for second service or first however they do it um and go in as a family as well so that's that's really great you know it's one of those things where it's like for parents it's like you you can only give them tools you know you can't make a parent use them.
SPEAKER_02:But it's not like you've created an environment where you like actually truly can have the best of both worlds which is great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah and just like you you said that purpose like I that's all I can do. It's like at the end of the day if the parent really doesn't want their kid to come in there it's you know there's not much I can do. But I my job is to at least give them the sort the resources to have that. And if not to like I'll try to send out emails too it's like if the student can't join because you know the school year starts people playing sports I try to at least give a breakdown of like hey this is going to be the topic we're going through here's all the verses we're gonna go through here's this just to make sure the parents have that so if they want to go over that with the students um they can and they'll they won't just be lost that they're out two weeks and come in for the third week of a series uh so I try my best to to to give those resources to the parents uh but that's all I can do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah that's awesome man well uh Tito really appreciate you being with us again had you on uh had you on a couple years ago it's fun to have you back um thanks for thanks for sharing with us man really appreciate you no man thank you for uh for having me so it's fun um love you guys love everything you guys do and uh it's exciting so we we love you Tito take away good to see you Tito you as well see you guys before we go hold on I'm gathering supplies sorry this is not good radio before we go it's time to give Logan a chance to hype up one of his favorite youth pastors by adding them to our sweet little cork board here so Logan I'm gonna give you this pin and you can yeah it'll do some damage um and you can you can add your buddy I don't know if it's a guy or a girl here and tell us why you chose them.
SPEAKER_03:Okay I'm gonna add truly my good friend Alec Russo I'm gonna pin him right up here to the top nice good pinning I didn't do the assignment was to print a small picture.
SPEAKER_02:Eight and a half by eleven is smaller than other pictures.
SPEAKER_03:Sure smaller than the poster I didn't yeah you know it's taken up quite a bit of the corkboard but that's okay.
SPEAKER_02:He's got he's got some good holy jeans on in this picture.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah I picked it twice Alec's gonna he's gonna roast me later because I picked a picture from like 2019 and he's gonna be like that was so long ago how dare you but I loved the hand up like hand up preaching photo. So that there's a little insight into why I picked the photo. Uh Alec my good friend uh did junior high ministry for uh a while uh in the in the valley but is now at a church plant uh in Phoenix in the Valley um called Echoes Church um and so they they uh he started there I'm trying to think it was um earlier this year um where he started full time so he's he is over students junior high end high school there primarily works with the high school students though and has a junior high counterpart but is over both um and just is living church plant life and so which is hard yeah which is hard but um is is doing a killer job loving on loving on students there in the valley um at a at a new place and so wanted to shout him out um alec is a a great youth pastor because he just has such a welcoming personality uh makes like every makes everybody feel like their friend I definitely feel like I'm his friend hope he would call me the same um so we're gonna find the relationship on the podcast uh are we friends Alec uh I think we are no um alec uh I want to shout out he thinks he's good at golf he's okay he's doing he's doing okay yeah he's doing his best he's doing his best yeah so me too Alec um but uh love that guy love what he's doing in Phoenix at Echo's church so we're gonna shout him out good man shout out to Alec appreciate you and the work that you were doing in the Valley also special thanks to Logan and to Tito for joining me today.
SPEAKER_02:Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester, Lauren Bryan and myself two weeks from now we're gonna finish this conversation we're gonna talk about big church we're gonna talk about in in in integrating I got through it integrating students into adult spaces with our good friend Jordan Francis. He's great if you don't want to miss that be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts we'll see you next time