Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
Bringing together influential voices from the CIY community to walk alongside you in your journey to maintain momentum between the mountaintop experiences of youth ministry.
Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
BTE4.15 Healthy Growth from Healthy Culture with Mike Branton and Caleb DeRoin
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What if the key to extraordinary youth ministry growth isn't flashy programming but something far more fundamental? In this conversation, Mike Branton shares how Sun Valley Community Church transformed their student ministry by focusing on relationships, staff retention, and intentional leadership development – resulting in over 300% growth in just four years.
Mike reveals the counterintuitive approach that set them apart: rather than pushing for immediate numerical results, they first established a healthy foundation before "pouring gas on the fire." He breaks down their ministry philosophy using a compelling fire metaphor where events are sparks, programs are logs, but relationships are the embers that provide lasting warmth and draw people in. "Those flashes in the pan are actually more detrimental than helpful in the long run," Mike explains, advocating instead for ministry that raises the water level permanently rather than creating temporary waves.
The conversation explores Sun Valley's commitment to authenticity, from their leadership distinctive of "love first, lead second, but always do both" to their transparent expectations with volunteers. Mike shares how they reorganized their ministry priorities (small groups first, student serving second, large group gatherings third) and reimagined church-wide partnerships where everyone serves as a "student volunteer." Perhaps most striking is their successful appeal to leadership for resources, including a Christmas offering that raised one million dollars to make summer camp financially accessible to all.
Whether you're struggling with leadership pressure for quick results or simply wanting to build sustainable growth, Mike's insights provide a refreshing alternative to the "bigger, better, faster" mentality that often pervades ministry conversations. This episode offers practical wisdom for creating a youth ministry that doesn't just attract numbers but transforms lives for the long haul.
Hello, I am Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event, a youth ministry podcast presented by Christ in Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. Today we're going to be talking to Mike Branton. Michael Branton is a pastor in the Phoenix area in Arizona. He is at Sun Valley Community Church. He was on staff at Christ in Youth for several years working with Believe and he's just a really great, insightful, thoughtful guy and we're going to talk about a lot of great things and I'm excited for you to hear from him. But before we do that, I am joined by my good friend, caleb DeRoyne. Hi, caleb.
Speaker 2:I'm just fired up to be here, all right.
Speaker 1:I'm just happy to be here.
Speaker 2:I'm just fired up to be here. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:It's something. So today is a weird day for me. I just want to like let everybody know that if I'm weird today, I got my tonsils taken out two weeks ago. I don't know if any of you have ever had your tonsils taken out as an adult human being, but it is the actual worst thing in the world.
Speaker 2:I hated every second of the recovery, the first 10 days after were like the world.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry. I hated every second of the recovery. The first 10 days after were like the worst, but I still like. It's over two weeks after and I still feel like. I think that I sound weird right now. Do I sound the same?
Speaker 2:to you. You sound like Brad. Well, that's good. You sound mostly normal, because my throat hurts. Don't say mostly normal. He's going to internalize that.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know me so well.
Speaker 3:You sound normal.
Speaker 1:Now, when I came over a week ago, you did not sound normal About a week ago, anyway, so I might say some crazy things, who knows? Also a weird day, because it's board meeting day today.
Speaker 2:It is board meeting day and my wife's birthday.
Speaker 1:And Alexis's birthday Shout out on the podcast. Shout out on the podcast. Shout out on the podcast to alexis deroyan, who is in marketing and not going to listen to this a hundred percent. So, um, one of my favorite things about my friendship with caleb is when I first started at ciy was like right after you got married. Um, when you got married in like november of 2017, and I started in january of 18 yeah, so like married. Caleb was still a fairly new person trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:He like had only existed for a very short period of time, but alexis's maiden name is bird song it is, which is like a great name.
Speaker 2:It is and everyone.
Speaker 1:everyone was like why you should have taken her name and called you caleb bird song all the time, or you guys would be coming to a party and people would be like the bird songs are coming the bird songs are here.
Speaker 2:It's true, that used to happen a lot. My grandfather would cry I am the only heir of my name. Yeah, and now my son, so it lives on.
Speaker 1:I am the only heir of my name and I don't have a son, so you'll get there. You could be an indie music duo as the bird songs, the bird songs, you guys could.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of you can play the mandolin. Uh-huh, yeah, you can play the mandolin and I'll play the zoe de chanel role yeah, anyway, it's board meeting day today.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of great people in the building um running around. It's an exciting day today. There's a lot of great people in the building running around. It's an exciting day. But really we don't need to talk about board meetings. That would be like the lamest possible thing to talk about, but it is a milestone day every year. It's like we have board meetings and then it's summer, it's coming fast. You know, what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like you always, caleb. We have a monthly all staff meeting that, Caleb, you get to talk about, like mix a little bit, and every single one of those meetings and you always get up and you're like this many days until, um, until we, you know, I don't know what that number is, but it has got to be less than it's less 45 days it's less.
Speaker 3:It's less than 30. It's less than 30 like working days yeah, less than 30 business days.
Speaker 2:Uh, let's see my heavens, we're like, we're.
Speaker 3:I think we're like 32, 30, somewhere around 32 days.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's got it.
Speaker 3:Just days total. We're like 31, 32 days from our production contractors showing up.
Speaker 2:It is until yes. So the production people show up a week before the event staff do, but general event staff show up in 28 business days From the day of recording. From the day of recording.
Speaker 1:I mean, this podcast comes out in three days, so 25 for you listening at home.
Speaker 2:Oh my heavens.
Speaker 3:You're just not on top of your podcast.
Speaker 1:Somebody listening to this four years from now is going to be like what are they talking about? When did they get?
Speaker 2:there Years ago. Did they ever make it Anyway?
Speaker 1:summer is coming and it's the best time.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:I love summer. I love mix. Going to get to do a couple of fun mix things. What are we excited about for mix this year? What's going on?
Speaker 2:Man, I'm excited about this theme. I'm excited about for Mix this year. What's going on, man, I'm excited about this theme I'm excited about.
Speaker 1:I mean just In between, yeah.
Speaker 2:Even talking about in between is so prevalent for sixth, seventh and eighth graders, especially because they're in middle school. Right, they're in middle school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's called middle school. Yeah, it might as well's called middle school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it might as well be called between school a hundred percent, and so this is just so well tailored for them and we're gonna get to be able to tackle some pretty heavy texts from hebrews and make it really, really cool and unique for them. And so I'm excited to just hang out with uh, with churches that I know and love this summer and meet new churches that I've never met before, and I'm just ready for the craziness of summer. There's something about the adrenaline and the alive and having to figure out problems and put out fires but also be so in tune and surrounded by the holy spirit, doing unbelievable stuff that it's like, yeah, I couldn't wait, I just yeah, it's, it's gonna be so great and board meeting day is like when it starts now we're we're in fifth gear and we're not coming back until august how does?
Speaker 1:that make you feel are you ready?
Speaker 2:are you ready to be in fifth gear? I always live my life in fifth gear, baby okay, let's talk a little bit about your august.
Speaker 1:Um, you're doing something exciting, yeah, which is going to leadville, colorado.
Speaker 2:I am going to leadville, colorado, to participate in a very cool event.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I haven't really talked to you about it, so I want to hear about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you are listening to this, there is a YouTube series called From the Ground Up, and they pick some pretty novice mountain bikers. I am novice, I like to ride, but nothing crazy. It's more of just like a mental health break for me to go ride my bike. But they pick you and they train you up for a few months to go ride my bike, um, but they pick you, um, and they train you up for a few months to go ride a hundred miles on a mountain bike in leadville, colorado. The race is august 9th, so summer will be wrapped up just barely barely wrapped.
Speaker 2:we're still working here. I'm going to have to miss truck unpack. Sorry, we'll miss you. It's essentially just like a 12-hour bike race and climbing up mountains.
Speaker 1:It takes 12 hours to do 100 miles. I'm hoping.
Speaker 2:Like 12 hours is good.
Speaker 1:I'm hoping to make it in 12 hours, oh my heavens, how do you even prepare for something like that?
Speaker 2:uh, sitting on a bike for a long time. There are some days where I'm out of bed for less than 12 hours.
Speaker 3:Most of the time those are saturdays, but so oh my gosh my goal.
Speaker 2:So the crazy thing about this race is you climb all these mountains and you can do it on your bike or you can walk your bike, but there are time cuts throughout the way. So it's like at the first 40 miles if you're not there by a certain time of day, they will pull you off the course because you will get back after dark and you shouldn't mountain bike on these crazy mountains in the dark, and so so it's not just down it down, it's up and down. Up and down it's something. So it's 105 miles. Actually, it's more attractive to call it a hundred miles, but it's 105 miles and there's 12,000 feet of climbing over the hundred miles.
Speaker 1:I just got sick to my stomach.
Speaker 2:Uh, I listened to a podcast about it the other day, a mile-by-mile recap of what the race looks like, and I yeah.
Speaker 1:So wait, when you're going up, you walk the bike. I mean, if you can't ride it.
Speaker 2:So, like the goal is, you want to ride it up the hills, okay, but like you're going to be dying, Shot at some point, and so yeah be shot at some point, and so yeah, they're. The craziest climb is from 9600 feet to 12 500 feet in a little over seven miles. It's 3000 feet. It's stupid. So what I'm?
Speaker 1:doing is how many people participate in this 1800 people okay how many people finish?
Speaker 2:1200 people finished, so that means 600 people got pulled off the course.
Speaker 1:Like if you finish in any amount of time. I feel like that's an insane accomplishment.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:And my goal.
Speaker 2:So this summer. My goal is to. If you see me at an event, I'll probably have my bike with me. If you see me in New Mexico, I'm a hundred percent bringing my bike. I'll wake up before adult leader meeting, ride to adult meeting.
Speaker 1:Are you breaking news right now? Are we moving adult leader meeting back to the mornings?
Speaker 2:yes, mix adult whoa breaking news I think you just peeked out there, because michael's already looking did I?
Speaker 1:uh, it wouldn't be the first time.
Speaker 3:You went 0.4 decibels above the ceiling.
Speaker 1:It'll be fine. Fix it in post. I will fix it in post. We'll fix it in post.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's more of a passion project for me. I love what I get to do. I love mix with my whole heart.
Speaker 1:But you love mountain biking more.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. It's something crazy that a couple of years ago, as everyone does, I was dealing with a pretty low mental health stage of my life and found that cycling and riding my mountain bike would help me combat against that a little bit. So it's always, it's been a part of my life pretty consistently for the past couple of years and being on this, I mean it's crazy, it's to the nines, like there's a whole YouTube series about it. It's all sorts of craziness, um, just lucky, blessed to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:Well, as your friend, I'm very proud of you for even like walking down this road. That's crazy. This isn't like, oh, I'm gonna go run a marathon no, it's like five marathons in mountains it's crazy. When I say I could never, I mean I would die.
Speaker 4:I would physically I would die.
Speaker 2:I'm from.
Speaker 1:Florida. The highest altitude that I've ever run at is 16 feet above sea level yeah, I'm from oklahoma, I'm just kidding. Uh, oh well, that's my life, that's gonna be an adventure. I can't I literally cannot wait to have you back on this podcast in the fall and be like hey, how was it?
Speaker 2:it's either I'm gonna I'm probably gonna cry, either way, yeah, I'm just remembering how bad it was it'll be like experience it.
Speaker 1:How was it? It's either I'm going to, I'm probably going to cry either way, yeah, or just remembering how bad it was. It'll be a good experience. It's going to be a good experience. It'll be really cool.
Speaker 3:And if you want to follow along, you can follow Caleb on Instagram at thederoynt, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:At thebirdsong. That's incredible. Also, I'm I'm not over the fact that we're moving adult leader meetings back to the mornings. I just got settled in to the evenings. You know what I mean. What was that about? Why did we decide that?
Speaker 2:We decided it because pertinent information to last you for the day is better to be like hey I don't have to sleep on important information.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:it is better to be like hey, I don't have to sleep on important information. Here's everything you need for the next 12 hours, instead of here's half of what you need for the next three hours. And here's everything you need for the next eight tomorrow. After you've slept for two hours, um no, we really enjoyed the evening ones, like we really really did. It just logistically works and makes a ton of sense with the schedule. Um, to have that huddle in the mornings you know what I love about mix?
Speaker 1:what do you love about mix? Always willing to try things. Always it's like, hey, let's try it, let's try it. They did it and you know what? It wasn't terrible, that's what we do. So, uh, okay, it is officially time for the mailbag. Um, you know, I know it's time for the mailbag. My lower back is getting sweaty.
Speaker 3:Ooh gross, and that means it's time. I did not know that that was how you Cause my mailman Michael came in.
Speaker 2:Actually, for those of you listening, I will give you a secret. There is a certain person in our building, right down the hall from where we're recording this, and it is the one and only mailman tap he's here.
Speaker 3:I did not know that he is here right now.
Speaker 2:Now, is he going to be a move this summer?
Speaker 1:no, nope is he going to be a mix?
Speaker 3:nope also now, why could we not have tried to see, tried to see? If he could be Mailman Tim for this episode.
Speaker 1:We could have. I thought about it, but he is like leaving.
Speaker 3:He is, I mean I'm sure, very tight schedule.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a sought after man, but just know he's in the building. And boy, can you feel that?
Speaker 3:I can feel him. I was wondering what I was feeling. That's that was it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, now for mailman pikel.
Speaker 3:I'll never measure up um, okay, brad, I sent you something on instagram last night, oh gosh, okay, um did I see it. You did see it because I you were right in front of me right after I sent it.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's right look at your instagram.
Speaker 3:Yep, I'm just going to read this. This was from the IGNcom Instagram account. It was just a headline and when I read this headline I was a little confused before I was like, why would I be confused about this? And this headline says Steve in a Minecraft movie was originally going to be Matt Berry, the actor. So many of our questions in the mailbag are from Matt Berry and I had to take a second to separate the Matt Berry in our mailbag Not that Matt Berry and the Matt Berry that could have been in a Minecraft movie.
Speaker 1:We did ask for. We asked for mailbag questions one time and Mike Berry, it's Matt Berry, Matt Berry. Matt Berry left a comment with like a hundred questions. I was like sick.
Speaker 3:So many questions we're set for life, we're never going to have to ask again. And we still have some that we've not asked. I'm going to give Matt a break on this one, oh. So, I have a question that I I toss around um every once in a while that I enjoy um I hope you guys.
Speaker 1:This is a question from michael.
Speaker 3:This is a question from me. Thanks for writing in. Yeah, of course, I would like to know what is your smallest regret, something that you do regret, but it's like, whatever you know it's really not a big deal my smallest regret is that, like what do you mean?
Speaker 1:like I got a diet dr pepper instead of a diet coke and I regret like do you regret that?
Speaker 2:no, but I mean like that type of thing.
Speaker 1:So you've obviously thought about this question. What's your answer?
Speaker 3:so, uh, last fall I bought a photo printer on ebay, yeah, and it works only 95 percent, like it has actual defects in the prints which are so unfortunate and make it so that I can't like I wanted to try and start selling prints and I can't do that. But how much did you pay for it? Like 150 bucks.
Speaker 1:Like like a professional photo printer, is like multiple hundred, like several hundred dollars.
Speaker 3:I have since bought a straight replacement for that printer and it works perfectly.
Speaker 4:So you know, yeah, but it's not like.
Speaker 3:It's not like I'm out tons of money or it's not like you know, it ruined my life, it's just.
Speaker 1:I started a garden this year and I regret not growing carrots. Oh, I should have done carrots. That's a good. I feel like that's my smallest regret.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my smallest regret is I was going to make a joke, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 1:Signing up for the Leadville one Maybe.
Speaker 2:Maybe my smallest regret is not finishing my Fairlife protein milk this morning.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause it's 80 degrees outside and that has been sitting in my truck.
Speaker 3:We have a question from Alex weirdo I love him all the way from South Florida, all the way.
Speaker 1:Community Christian church.
Speaker 3:Alex is asking what are ways that we stay up with culture in regards to middle school and high school students?
Speaker 2:huh I, so it's crazy that we talk about this.
Speaker 2:We just had a gen alpha study yesterday we did with ann wilson from traders point came through she's on the board but gave us that. Um, I think the goal is like we gotta stop trying to stay up to um date with them. The language is different, the videos are different, the humor is different. Um, you can know what they're doing, so obviously they live online. So, as much as you feel comfortable and healthy to like live online to understand that a little bit like you can build algorithms around what a normal middle school boy or high school girl would be able to look at.
Speaker 2:But, dude, I just don't think we need to run the rat race of them of trying to keep up. I just think you need to be wholly you, because that's all they really want, everything that they see online. There is a twinge of critique and caution of like is this real, Is this legit? Because we've grown accustomed to everything not being real, no matter what, and the most real that you can be with them in the moment, whether you know the stuff they're talking about or not. If you're just wholly you and authentically real, I think that's really more important than trying to keep up with them which is a generational shift, like in terms of like students caring about and looking for authenticity.
Speaker 1:Like the younger somebody is right now, the more likely they are to like care about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I agree with that. But, like, what's the difference between, let's say, when we were coming into college, brad?
Speaker 2:millennials yeah, when we were their age, like mumford and sons got big because, like, oh my gosh, they just use acoustic guitars. That's authentic. I think we need to redefine, like our idea of authenticity and vulnerability is a little bit different than what theirs is, um, but also at the same time, we were not as well connected to the whole wide world web and the whole earth at any moment's notice. We were just getting into that I didn't get a Facebook until I was in college, right, like people older than me couldn't get a Facebook until they were in college because it was only college.
Speaker 1:You had to have a edu email address to sign up.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things that, like, I think we also need to redefine authenticity just a little bit and what that looks like.
Speaker 1:But that's a tangent. I mean, there I'm. I am not negating anything that you just said. It was incredible. I agree with you 100%. There is still a sense in which we want to like, make t-shirts that are a junior high student wants to buy and we want to make videos that a junior high student wants to engage in, but it's not like I mean with the advent of phones. Someone was just on the podcast and said this it's like I can't. I think it was jordan francis.
Speaker 1:Actually he was like I can't make things that are cooler than what they can find you know what I mean like I can't keep up like I'll make something cool because they think it's cool and by the time I actually make it and it's any good, that'll be out of fashion. And so, like the trends change so fast now, Like I think the job of our design team that have to design shirts four months in advance for our programs it's just getting like harder and harder over time because it feels like totally we've gone from having fads when we were growing up to have like meme culture which is like this is funny for three weeks.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And then if that, and then we never think about it again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you are a three week runner, then, boy, you had a good run.
Speaker 1:You had a good run a long time to be funny so yeah, it is. That wasn't an answer to that question, but that's what I thought about yeah, I just think it's a rat race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're on the losing side, so we gotta. We gotta adjust our mindset of, instead of trying to do that, like be holistic, like, right, holistically, you even in your design, like what is your design? Like, okay, cool, it's different than everything else, but like just like, yeah, this is what we got and this is why we do the t-shirt. Right, because we do the t-shirt. Does anyone know why we do t-shirts at CY? I'll tell you why. This is tangential, but it's worth it. We do t-shirts because that is potentially a calling card for any student that buys a t-shirt or a lanyard or a journal or a hoodie or whatever, to have a piece of tactile clothing from the week that could potentially have changed their lives. So for years from now and I'm sure some of you who are listening have some of these- have old t-shirts.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, like man.
Speaker 2:I gave my life to Jesus at a COI in 2016, and I still have the t-shirt from Kingdom Workers. That was the theme. That was a long answer it was good.
Speaker 1:I I thought it was great. It's a great conversation, honestly, like I. There's a lot more that should and can be unpacked there, but, um, we have a whole interview to get to maybe, uh, what is there more?
Speaker 3:that's gonna be it for today. That's gonna be it for today. Thank you, mailman mailman mike um. Mike is a shortened version of mailman pikel so it becomes michael, that's how it works I was just wondering if we were gonna like maybe workshop. Is it like mailman mike, or is it like like parcel pike? I don't know. Like parcel pike, yeah you want to start?
Speaker 2:we're going pike instead of pike. I have written, I have, I have written pike on some things as like a I have.
Speaker 3:I've had other people write pike. Pike is a fish you don't want to be named after a fish.
Speaker 1:The weapon is named after the fish. I will say, uh, but it is a weapon should we interview brand? Yeah, let's go. Uh, mike, I'm super glad you're here. I want to talk to you a little bit about growth, because you guys at sun valley community church have just experienced some insane growth. I was actually just looking at the numbers um, in 2021, that was only four years ago, mike, right well, you know, uh, you guys brought 212 people to move.
Speaker 1:okay, okay, bring in a cool 1156. We're gonna do easy math and call that 300 growth over the course of four years. Uh, in 2022, you brought 262 people to mix and bring about 700 this summer. I'm not going to try to do the math there, but you guys have experienced a ton of growth and I know that you're intentional about wanting to grow and I want to talk about that a little bit. But before we talk about you know how you guys do that and and and what you feel like has helped you along in that journey I want to know some people. I feel like some people think that trying to grow numerically is like icky you know what I mean. Like there are people that are like and I understand it. I understand how the conversation about numbers is really nuanced and different and I'm just curious why, like, pursuing numerical growth is something that you are passionate about, and I know that it's rooted in like biblical truth and prayer for you, and just help me navigate that a little bit.
Speaker 4:Totally for you and I just just help me navigate that a little bit. Totally. Uh, if there's a few places I want full, uh, it's heaven and church, like I don't know. Uh, yeah, I don't I don't love waiting in line at amusement parks when they're full. Like I don't, I don't love that. I don't love a full restaurant where I have to wait, um, but yeah, but yeah, those other places camp, church, heaven, like let's fill it up, dude.
Speaker 1:That's a good point, that is that is that's, that's the goal, um. So, yeah, I, I, I. I want to talk about how you do that, though, because you guys have obviously experienced tremendous growth, um, over the course of the past. I mean, I only have numbers going back for three years for mix, four years for move, whatever, um, but I'm curious how you pursue that, how you engage in that, what it looks like for you to say, hey, let's go out there and and and grow yeah, uh, for me it's nothing crazy flashy.
Speaker 4:Uh, in fact, I I almost, when I see something hit really quickly, I have a lot of questions. Um, so there was a lot of groundwork up to those, those growth years, um, but, man, just to take it back to what I feel are like really basic things would be healthy growth, so healthy ways to grow, consistency, like doing the right thing just over and over and over and over again. Just a little context we're a multi-site church and so we have six different campuses, so staff retention is like where I started. I was like let's get the right people in the right places and keep them there for a really long time. Turnover is always going to, in my opinion, probably stunt growth and lose trust with families and all those things that happen over years and years and years. And then, uh, culture has to be rebuilt and things like that. So, man, right, people, uh, healthy culture and consistency would be just the foundation of how our growth has happened.
Speaker 1:What is unhealthy growth?
Speaker 4:look like our growth has happened. What is unhealthy growth? Look like, yeah, and not to knock, like, let's start with events, but not to knock events. We do events, but I think there are probably a lot of event driven ministries out there. Let's equate it to like a fire, right, like everyone needs a spark to get started, which could be those events, like, let's say, sparks are events, um, and then let's talk about programming.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of program heavy, uh ministries out there. Those would be like the logs on the fire. These are like the staples that we do. These are the things we do, our program, um, but for me, I feel like where it gets really good and healthy and uh, lasting is that that ember in the fire. Like once it's been going for a little bit, you get those embers, um, and that, to me, would be relationships. So we, we are relationship driven ministry. Uh, we have a program. We do events every now and then, but our bread and butter is connection, right, so, helping students connect with other students and with caring adults, so they're volunteers and allowing that to be the the.
Speaker 1:The thing that keeps the fire going, that continues to fuel what we do, is relationships well, I know I want to talk about the, because the two things that you've said tie together obviously the relational aspect and the staff retention aspect.
Speaker 2:And I know that, caleb, the staff retention piece and the staff care piece is something that you care a lot about, um, so I know that you just kind of had some thoughts about that, or I don't know yeah, uh, I mean, mike, we've worked together, for when you worked here, uh, we worked together for years and I think one of the things from afar that I look up to you in a lot of ways is just the intentionality you go about hiring the right person and the right people for your team. So could you explain just a little bit? Like you had mentioned, we need to put the right people in the right places. Was that a shift for you? Was that something that you've always kind of thought? How has it paid off? What are some ways? Like honestly, I think we need to hear the other side of it too, of like, sometimes the right people are not in the right spot and they may be great people, but they're not in the right spot, so we need to shift them somewhere else.
Speaker 4:That's kind of an umbrella of a question, but many, many conversations can come out of that, but many many conversations can come out of that, yeah, so I'll go back to the culture piece when we're looking to hire someone. That's a huge part of how I think that at least at Sun Valley, we've been able to find the right people and have the growth that we've had is because our culture is actually really, really strong. My personal experience a lot of churches have their statements and their vision statements and this is who we are and it looks really good on paper, but it doesn't always play out in reality. Something I feel is unique to where we're at is we have a strong culture on paper that matches reality. That's cool, yeah, that's great what we do and so, yeah, through interview processes or through growing up internal leaders that become pastors inside of our church, that culture, that DNA, is a really, really important thing that we look for and that we'd see if someone's teachable, coachable and can come on board with the culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that idea of having super strong value statements and missions, but it not being the practical, so this is a sidebar, but I'm in school right now. Graduate in a month, thank the Lord.
Speaker 1:Hold for applause.
Speaker 2:But that's like one of the things right, Like organizations often Getting your high school diploma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, finally. Good for you, man, that's more.
Speaker 2:Jaguar.
Speaker 3:Congratulations 25. Is that a thing? I was homeschooled.
Speaker 4:So 25.
Speaker 3:Let's go. Is that a thing?
Speaker 1:I was homeschooled A high school diploma, did you say are you eating your diploma? I said are you?
Speaker 3:getting your diploma. Okay, I was like phew, I misheard.
Speaker 1:No, people don't eat their diplomas.
Speaker 3:All right, but it sounds like a thing.
Speaker 4:But if someone did, it would be Throw the hat yeah.
Speaker 2:No, all that to say, like, oftentimes, people we come up with that's just even pare it down to like sun valley youth group or sun valley students. We come up with these huge, grandiose vision statements of we want to change the world and we want to equip the next leaders of whatever, and while those are cool and flowery, like what are we practically doing to live that out? And so it's super encouraging to hear that, like your vision and mission match with, like, the actions of the staff. That's just not always the most common.
Speaker 1:Well and I'm thinking like not everybody has a youth ministry staff right, like there's a youth pastor out there listening to this who can't hire anybody yeah, and your team is your volunteers. And I know Like there's there's a youth pastor out there listening to this who can't hire anybody yeah, and your team is your volunteers.
Speaker 1:And I know I was going to say they're hiring volunteers, but yeah but like how we do that matters, and I think, like standing on a stage and saying is there any person over the age of 18 with a pulse who wants to hang out with high school students? Is is probably not like the way to create some of the longevity and the strength of culture that you're talking about. You know what I mean, Cause there it sounds to me like you would say, Mike, there are a lot of great youth pastors out there that sun Valley is not their place and it's not a value statement about them as a youth pastor, but this is just not the right spot for them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, a hundred percent for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how. So yeah, to go back, how have those conversations went? And edifying ways, because the thing about some values there's not just like a lot of turnover, like people aren't just like quitting or getting fired, um, but there are people that are not always in the right spot. So you don't have to give like a literal example, but like how do you approach something like that of like you know what this person is, great, they would be really great over here, better than what they are in this particular role.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so one of our leadership distinctives, like a part of our DNA, is we love first, lead second, but always do both. So love first, lead second, always do both employees or our people really well. Um, I feel like that that gives me the platform to then speak into how to lead them. Yeah, uh, and, and if I'm doing both, I feel like that conversation is actually really natural and not awkward and not sure, not intimidating or like what do you mean?
Speaker 2:um, no, it's based on yeah, it's based off building them up. At that point it's like, hey, I know you and I love you and here are things that you're really good at, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. So, what's been the payoff? Like you get to Sun Valley in what year? 2019. 2019, coming from CIY? Yeah, you begin this process of like. Hey, I'm really, really going to invest a lot in this team and in this culture and make it strong, and I want to try to reduce turnover so that we can build strong relationships and continue to see this ministry grow. What, like, how? What does your staff look like now in terms of how you feel like you've grayed yourself almost is what I'm saying. You know I do. What's the fruit that you've seen come out of? That, I guess, is what the real question I'm asking is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it was, you know, hard at first because some things did need to change and some people did need to either exit the team or shift to another role. In terms of the newer direction we were going with things, but that brought about some healthy change and some good momentum, um, and then I would say that staff is is one part of it. Um, the flip side of the coin is we also, you know, started to mess with philosophy like hey, what, what are we doing? Why are we doing what we're doing? How are we going to execute that? Um, so some of that shifted and changed as well. Uh, so people and mind mindset shifts um, occurred in those first like 18 months or so. Uh, and the longevity that that that has afforded us has played out really well.
Speaker 4:But it was a battle to start. One of my first real things that I needed to go to bat for was actually a salary increase. I had to go to our HR department and be like, hey, here's the vision. I need people here long term. I need people that, if they have a family, hey, here's the vision. I need people here long-term. I need people that, if they have a family, they can keep doing this job. I need you know, like all of that was a conversation and so, um, that upped and and we have a great uh HR department and they realized what, what was happening and where we're going and what we needed to accomplish. Um, so, like that was one of the foundational things of like just being able to make this viable for a long time, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it totally does, and I think it's really cool that I I feel like a lot of people would expect a podcast like this to start. Hey, how do you intentionally grow and somebody to start rattling off programming changes that they made? You know what I mean. Well, we started doing would expect a podcast like this to start. Hey, how do you intentionally grow and somebody to start rattling off programming changes that they made? You know what I mean. Well, we started doing this and we stopped doing this. And we, you know, and I, you know, I'm sure there's a place for that. I'm sure you know like programming is important. I'm.
Speaker 1:The philosophy, uh, the, the, the longevity, the people, making sure they're in the right spot, is actually something that matters more, probably, to to creating and fostering growth than any individual thing that you might do or not. Do you know, um? Did you like was, was, was programming those first 18 months when you were talking about man? We really need to instill the culture. We need to, um, come up with what our philosophy is going to be. We need to get the right people in the right seats on the bus. Tough 18 months. Um was pro. What role did programming play in all of that. Was that on your mind at all?
Speaker 4:It was, yeah, and we can talk through some of that too if you'd like, but we had like. So 2020 happened and the world shut down for a second, which was actually a really silver lining moment for us, because we could hit, like a really hard reset when we, when we came back together and since we is also, I'm in arizona, so we were only shut down for like a second a month and a half because we're the wild west, right, uh.
Speaker 4:But um, yeah, when we came back to it it was just like and now we're gonna do this and no one really questioned, questioned the change. So I admit it probably would have taken longer, like a longer runway, to make some of those changes without that opportunity. But, that being said, it was a really good, just fresh start for us on the programming side of things.
Speaker 1:So all we need to do is incite a global pandemic. If nope, we went, no or okay just manufacture.
Speaker 4:Just manufacture it like things aren't going really well where you're at. I mean, there is, there is really clear data that says it's okay to like stop something and then start something.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know, I mean momentum.
Speaker 4:Momentum happens when you can celebrate and end something, and when you can celebrate and start something right. So they're like you could artificially create, like a stop and a start wherever you're at and there are like times of the year when that happens, naturally.
Speaker 1:Anyway, you know like coming back after the summer or the beginning of the calendar year. Yeah, that's interesting. So just like taking a deep breath as a ministry.
Speaker 2:you know that's interesting, that's cool, yeah, especially because I mean obviously we hear that and we're like, yeah, totally, totally get it. But I'm already thinking about like the next two months of programming that I have to do. So it's like I could never. I could never stop this, I could never like pause for a moment. But no, that's good, that's really good.
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like so much programming is um comes from a template. Now, anyway, you know like I'm deciding am I a Sunday youth ministry person or am I a Wednesday youth ministry person?
Speaker 1:And you know like everything feels like it's very much in this box and I have to. You know, choose like, pick my options out of there. Was there any ways that you guys just kind of like got really creative and were like we're going to throw all of this out and just do what we feel like is going to work for sun valley?
Speaker 4:yes, and it's so interesting. You say like I'm either this or this, we're actually all of it, uh. So like we have weekend services for uh for our students and we provide midweek small groups for our students and we can kind of talk like program here in more in depth in a second. But what I want to say on this kind of particular thing is, since we're relationally focused, we're going to cast a net wherever we can to connect with students right.
Speaker 1:Create as many assessments as you can. How do you do that without making your staff pull their hair out and quit? You know what I mean? You pay them more. What? Yeah?
Speaker 4:you pay them more. You pay them more. No, you create, like we create a really healthy flow for them. So another one of our like DNA things is uh, like effort, like we work hard, we give our best, but we put our family first is kind of like our, our phrase for that distinctive Um. And so, yeah, we expect a lot from our, our pastors, our employees. We expect a lot from our volunteers too, um, but we do it in a really healthy way that can last.
Speaker 4:So the weekend comes every weekend, right, but strategic moments where, whether it's Easter or Christmas, like our students are joining the adult services and our pastoral staff is helping in a different way with the church overall. But then our midweek it just follows the school year, so we take breaks. When the school takes breaks, like every family is going to enjoy that. All of our volunteers love the time off or the little break and it's natural, again, it's in that calendar year. So summer's off, spring break, fall break we have fall break here in Arizona. Summer's off, spring break, fall break we have fall break here in arizona. Um, and then nice, uh like, like after thanksgiving, through the new year, we take those, those time periods off yeah, no, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:And as you were saying it, I was thinking about the like relational youth ministry thing. It's like if that's going to be your thing, if that's your core value, then you have to create spaces where that can happen. So even that, you know, I I feel like there's a way to do a lot in a way that is not really missional, just to do a lot, you know what I mean. Like I feel like I should have programming in the middle of the week and should have programming on the weekends, and you know, my senior pastor tells me that I have to do Sunday school and so we're just going to kind of do all this stuff as like a, a piecemeal kind of thing. But when it's intentional and you know, like, okay, the goal of every single thing that we do is going to be relational connection, then it becomes kind of a different thing, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 1:I also love the idea of just saying outright like we expect a lot from our volunteers, because I feel like in the same, like same scenario where youth pastor stands on stage on a Sunday and says, hey, anyone who's an adult with a pulse we need you probably also says it'll be easy, it's fun, it's just hanging out with kids, you know, and you'll have a great time. So I feel like there's some like honesty that you have built into your culture. That is probably really helpful too. Would you agree with that? Yeah, yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and here's another thing when it comes to volunteers, that kind of sparked when you said that I have this philosophy, this mentality that every volunteer at our church is a student volunteer. Like, okay, you're in kids ministry but a student is volunteering next to you in that kids classroom. You're a student volunteer, right. You're in parking lot ministry, you're a greeter, but there's a student that's serving in that area. You are walking along that student. So like, you are a student volunteer.
Speaker 4:And so we've been really intentional about trying to partner with other ministries inside the church to make sure that they understand that they're also a significant adult in the life of that student, relationally right, yeah, we have a text message that goes out to a few thousand people that pray for our students. They're a part of our student ministry. Do I ever see them? Most of them know, yeah, but they're grandmas and grandpas and aunts, andts and uncles or like they're. They are the, the businessman that travels a ton but can get that text message and take time and pray for our students, and so, um, yeah, that's been a huge mindset shift to try to try to equip the saints in our church and say like, no, no, no, no, no, no. This generation needs and wants and values what you have to offer. However, you offer it.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and I definitely want to lean into this a little bit, because Sun Valley takes kind of a holistic approach to student ministry as I understand it, that you're coming in and saying, hey, let's partner together children's ministry volunteers because you're going to be helping us reach our goals of having students find these relational connections. So what is the buy-in of your upper levels of leadership in student ministry? Kind of look like at Sun Valley, Because it sounds like it's very strong.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 4:So I'm going to say something that's going to sound like a dig about leadership, but it's not, and then I'm going to compliment it afterwards. So when I first came student minist, it wasn't. Student ministries wasn't really in a healthy spot and our leadership didn't really talk about it from stage a ton. They didn't highlight it a ton. Um, they weren't making big uh asks for offering for camp or things like that, which we can talk about too if you want to. But, um, they literally like we sat down together and they said, hey, we're not going to fuel this until you're ready, interesting. And so it was kind of on me to be like when, when are we going to be healthy enough to where it makes sense that our leadership really backs this? Because they're not going to make, they're not going to say like, go serve in student ministries, and then it'd be a horrible experience, Right Cause they just lost, they just lost trust with with the congregation, and so, um, yeah it.
Speaker 4:It took a couple years for us to then be like and hey, we're ready now. You know what I mean. And then it was like let's pour gas on this fire, let's support it. We take an offering at Easter and Christmas. That always kind of goes outside our walls or to something beyond kind of just our general offering Right, to something beyond, um, kind of just our general offering, right.
Speaker 4:So, uh, we just said, hey, what if our Christmas offering went to scholarship summer camp for anybody who really wants to go in our community? It would be really easy. Ask for our people to invite people when it's not you know umpteen hundred or a thousand dollars to go to this camp. Um, you know what if it was super attainable? And year one of that, uh, our, our people give a million dollars, uh, just to subsidize the cost of camp across from our kids day camp to our preteen camp, to our junior high and high school camps. Um, yeah, it just brought the cost from like man, it's really expensive, especially if you have multiple kids. Uh, down to like, oh, that's a really easy, yes, attainable thing to do.
Speaker 1:That's incredible because I'm trying to imagine all of the different ways that conversation can go. Like at some point I'm guessing it was you somebody sat down with somebody at an executive leadership level senior pastor, executive pastor or whatever and said hey, I know this offering usually goes to fill in the blank. Let's give it to me so that I can use it to scholarship students instead, students instead. Like yeah, I feel like nine, nine times out of ten, that conversation is gonna fall flat. But the fact that your, your leadership, said, no, we totally see the value in this and buy into it, um, I think it's just like a really, really cool thing.
Speaker 2:That's incredible and I also see, like right, you mentioned, from your point of view, the groundwork that you intentionally laid to be able to grow well, but also the, the reins being held back just a bit by leadership, to know like, hey, we want to do this, like that partnership was always on their heart and on their mind.
Speaker 2:We don't want to do it when you're not ready. So there's wisdom, like from both ends coming up and meeting in this middle. That has created these last four years to be just like going gangbusters right, like things are popping off and it's super fun and it's cool to be around. Like I'm not I don't go to Sun Valley, that would be a crazy Sunday commute for me, but I mean it's honestly like I look forward to it every year and you and your whole staff are very near and dear to my hearts and you guys have welcomed me in because we do middle school camp together every summer in June in New Mexico and it's infectious to be a part of and the amount of like just campus pastors I've met that I'm now friends with, it's like you can see. It's very much top down, bottom up, like everyone's on the same page, and it's really, really cool to see.
Speaker 1:It does sound like an awesome church.
Speaker 2:Never been, but um it is in phoenix yeah right, I mean, I'm that's, it's I'm game for phoenix um, I'm super not I'm.
Speaker 1:I hear it's a great coffee city, true I don't know, I don't mike doesn't drink coffee.
Speaker 2:You don't drink coffee, no ask, ask mike britton what his coffee order what's your coffee order at Starbucks?
Speaker 4:Hot chocolate, no whipped cream, but a little cooler temperature, so I can drink it right away.
Speaker 2:Which is commonly referred to.
Speaker 1:The Michaels on this podcast are in full agreement right now it's crazy.
Speaker 3:I think Starbucks hot chocolate is better than most coffee shops. Hot chocolate there you go. I can honestly sit here and say I've never had hot chocolate is better than most coffee shops. Hot chocolate there you go.
Speaker 2:I can honestly sit here and say I've never had a coffee shop.
Speaker 3:Anyway, dang it, it's just, it's one of those things that I'm like. If they're hot chocolates, good, maybe other things are good. Now, starbucks is maybe an exception there, but I've been to a lot of coffee shops that have bad hot chocolate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's because they're coffee shops, michael, not ice cream parlors.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Anyway, you said something really interesting. No, we've got to get back on track.
Speaker 2:We're almost out. You remember that one time, brandon, did you go to Six Flags with us when I came down to Dallas for that belief.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we all went and rode roller coasters and Michael paid the entrance fee plus an extra fee just so he could go to the haunted houses.
Speaker 3:Hey, I had a great time.
Speaker 2:No roller coasters, just haunted houses. No coffee, just hot chocolate.
Speaker 1:Wild roller coasters, just haunted houses. No coffee, just hot chocolate. Yep, wild, um, all right. So I what we were talking about before someone derailed the conversation, I don't even remember who, uh, probably me, it was me. Um was caleb was talking about how he really respects that. Your leadership was like yeah, we want to pour into this. Let us know when you're ready. Um, when, what made you ready? You know what I mean. When did you pull the trigger on that and what had changed at that point? Where was the ministry? I don't know what question I'm even really asking, like what?
Speaker 1:switch what switch flipped that you were like, we're ready, let's go.
Speaker 4:Like what switch? What switch flipped that you were like we're ready, let's go. Yep, no, that is a, that is a an amazing question because there's so many nuances to it, cause you're like I don't even know what to ask, and I think a lot of people don't know what to even look for or ask in that scenario, like when would we be healthy and that's that's how I take the question when would we be healthy enough to get fuel for this fire? Right, for me there was a few different things that I needed. I needed perception to change was kind of one of the first things.
Speaker 4:We came again from pre-COVID. Our program then was student ministries once a week on Sunday evenings, and that was apart from our adult services, and it wasn't going really well Cause I think they were trying to do two things in one thing they're trying to do the big program, large group production and small group conversations. And from when I came in and kind of looked at that, I was like there's a lot going on here. One, I think students aren't as impressed with the program as we think they are. And then, two, I would not call them small groups, what were happening, I would call them discussion groups because they were not consistent students or consistent leaders from week to week and so they weren't investing relationally into them even outside of that one two hours window Right and then two from a church's overall standpoint, since they weren't ever seeing students get involved, because what had happened when they moved away from attending on the services that coincide with adult services is our students that served also tanked. So now there's no real incentive for a student to go to church when the adults are there. They're just going in there at their own moment during the week, which, from a church perspective, is like where are all the youth? It doesn't feel good actually, from a collective church body. It feels like something is missing because it was missing, and so I feel like we needed to change that narrative, we needed to change that perspective, and so we went back to junior, high, high school, preteen, all those people meeting at the same times as the adults were meeting, and so they were on camps, and then we actually set up like, like large group. We did we do three things right, we do small groups, large group and then students serving. Those were like our three big priorities that we wanted to like push, but we they're in priority order. So students in a small group was number one, students serving was number two, and then students coming to a large group like format program. That was like our third priority, and so we invested more into small groups and students serving than we did in our large group times. But that was one of those indicators that helped shift and change was church perspective.
Speaker 4:Then volunteer buy-in, like leaders coming on board, having that everyone wants to join a winning team. It didn't seem like we were winning in the moment. Even though great things were happening, god was still working in individuals' lives. Not to diminish any of that that was happening, but from an outsider's perspective it didn't seem like we were winning and so we needed to change that. We needed to have volunteers excited about doing what they're doing and become those evangelists to other people to like, hey, come join the team. And so we shifted words build worlds right. So we shifted a lot of vernacular. We intentionally set up this vocabulary that we said on repeat over and over and over and over and over and over. So people were like, oh, that's what's happening, oh, okay, and it's something that they wanted to join. And then, along with getting the right people in places, in leadership spots. When those kind of three things all like began to sync together, that's when I felt like we were ready for an influx of support.
Speaker 1:Sure, did I interrupt you earlier? Were you going to jump in with something? If not it's okay, I just felt like I interrupted you. Nope, okay, great, um. So that's all really incredible stuff and I think, um, like there's a reverse mentality of that. That's like let's get a bunch of kids in the door to create some energy, and then we'll be able to kind of like create some of the experiences that we want.
Speaker 4:So I love that perspective of and I would honestly say that's kind of like when I just look at youth ministry big umbrella, this is a big umbrella statement, so don't take it the wrong way. I would say, like those flashes in the pan actually are more detrimental than helpful in the long run. Why actually are more detrimental than helpful in the long run? Why?
Speaker 4:Because it creates this like false sense of like we did something really big and great and it's like man, if you had people show up for one thing and then like you don't see them the rest of the year or you don't invest in them, no one's praying for them, no one's like I don't know if that was really successful. Like you got to gauge your wins and so you could throw a really great event and like have that one spark, but you, you're missing all those embers right. Like you're missing, um, that lasting warmth that draws more people in. I would say like that type of environment, that type of warmth, draws more people than a, than a spark, than like a we're getting something started or throwing a big party yeah, or like lighter fluid.
Speaker 4:Like you throw a lighter fluid on a fire, it goes out real, real fast yeah, and to our leadership's credit, they could have, you know, poured gas on that fire at the very beginning and it could have spiked, but we wouldn't have been ready, right like we wouldn't have maintained that momentum yeah, that's super interesting.
Speaker 2:So, shoot, I had something along the lines of that.
Speaker 1:Well, while you think of it, I can okay, nope, I was just gonna say I can't get past the fact that we're using a fire analogy to talk about mike's church in pho, arizona. It's like how often?
Speaker 4:how often do you have fires, mike? 96 degrees. It's fire outside all summer.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no. But I see that and it's interesting. So I wonder if there's a play boy. I am by no means somebody who can speak to like the psyche of the United States of America, nor would I want to.
Speaker 1:Big job.
Speaker 2:But right, like anyone can get famous for a minute, Anyone can make it. Mr Beast has thrown out $10 million to somebody who is picking a case Like this idea is so prevalent in our culture that it's almost countercultural that you took the time to build the support and the base that could withstand a windfall of growth, because oftentimes it's the flip side, and I'm I would just be interested that's, that's worth somebody like who's listening to this to study that and write a book on it. Because, like, legitimately, like I think there's something there of we had a really great couple summers or we have these three events during the year that, like we already know, students from other churches are going to come through. So my question to you is of, let's say, let's just pick your middle school numbers of all the students that are coming to middle school camp this year you may know it, you may not know it what percentage are actually plugged in throughout the year?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I can make up a number and it might sound really good. But instead of numbers but I'll talk instead of like numbers I'll kind of talk like, um, how we've seen, instead of like the wave that that crashes during summer, yeah, after every summer, we've seen like the water level rise, if that. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, and so I know brand new people are coming to. You know camps and things like that. Um, I, I know that there are, since it's at a lower cost. There are some other kids that come from other churches.
Speaker 4:Um, and we're not, we're not going to like, say no to that that's not our intent or our desire, um, but also, uh, if I'm just looking at the kingdom, like we're all on the same team doesn't matter. Yeah, we provide a really great experience for them to encounter god, like I don't know if there's anything wrong with that, yeah, uh. And then I will say, like, we use summer camp as the beginning of our year, so it like launches all of that relational equity into small groups, um, where some people might use it as, like a culmination. We, we always see it as a beginning.
Speaker 4:Um, but that big wave that crashes for summer every every year after the water level rises um after those moments, and so that's where I kind of gauge success or how we, how well we've done, is like, okay, we have this big uh thing happened, but did it stick Like um? Is that is that kind of helping answer that?
Speaker 2:That does. Yeah, I mean cause that's. That's just the intentionality and the base that you guys have built to be able to have that. Like that, water level is rising. All right, we're going to let you go here that, like that water level is rising.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to let you go here in a second, mike, but I want to.
Speaker 2:He's super frozen Huh. Mike is super frozen, uh-oh.
Speaker 1:He's back.
Speaker 2:He's back baby.
Speaker 4:I lost about four seconds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a good four set. You missed a lot.
Speaker 2:I gave the secret to growth?
Speaker 1:um, we're gonna let you go here in a sec. Uh, you've been great, giving us a lot of good stuff to chew on. I think my biggest takeaway has to do with, like, the collaboration that you have, um, or maybe that you I'm sure you maintain that collaboration, but the collaboration, really honestly, that you had when you started um with leadership, for them to be able to say you know, um, we want to see a student ministry grow. We want to see it grow, um, in a healthy way. So let's work together and let's so, um, I do wonder how many student pastors out there are almost have like the opposite problem where they a church hires student pastor, um, let's call him Dale, his name is Dale and they've hired Dale and they expect for his hiring to bring a lot of great like momentum to the ministry and he's a really exciting guy and they're excited, um, and he might have every intention of taking your philosophy, but then, six months in, he's getting called into his senior pastor's office Like hey, man, it feels like we're not really seeing.
Speaker 1:You know a lot, of a lot of change here I wonder how you would like encourage that type of person, you know yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 4:Uh, I think a lot of this hinges on leadership's perspective, right? Like my personal opinion is, you don't even get your feet under you until year two. And so, man, if you're sitting there six months into somewhere and things aren't as expected, I try to have really open, honest conversations on expectations and and and then try to like parse that out into attainable, attainable chunks. Like, hey, in four months can we set this goal? In another four months Can we set this goal with that Show you that we're on the right track.
Speaker 4:And no, no, no knock against leadership, but sometimes they're. They only look at the, the one or two things that come across their their desk. Some, some of them, aren't super involved. So I would invite them strategically to a few things so that they're seeing the good that's happening in the midst of growth, if that makes sense. So instead of you know, oh, we have a one-on-one quarterly or whatever that might be, I would up the frequency of that type of conversation if and when possible, but then include them in or invite them in on a Wednesday night or whatever. But have them, don't just come and like see it. Have them come and hear it. And what I mean by hear it is to hear the conversation or the wins that your volunteers are sharing afterwards. Hopefully, you're celebrating the things God's doing, um, and you're vocalizing that with your team and your volunteers. Make sure your leadership hears those wins, not necessarily just from your mouth, but from your volunteers mouth. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's really good. Uh, it's good stuff. It's a good note to end on. I it michael mike. Appreciate you, man. It's really great having you honestly um I hope you enjoy a nice lukewarm hot chocolate for the job well done today done. Thanks for being here, bro yeah, absolutely okay, well, that was a fun conversation. Thanks for hanging out. I think mike uh, he's had a lot of things that I just don't know that I've ever heard said that in like a cons, he says things, he chooses his words carefully, he says things in a really concise way.
Speaker 1:That's like piercing and um yeah just thinking about the value of relational youth ministry, I think, is something that's going to stick with me for a minute. I love that. Mikey B, mikey B, alright, caleb, our time together is drawing to a close. Will you wrap this up by reading our blessing, please?
Speaker 2:absolutely may God show you grace and bless you. May he make his face shine on you. May you experience the love of Christ, through whom God gives you fullness of life. May you be strengthened by his power. May Christ himself make his home in your heart, that you would be full of his love and grace and that those you serve would see Jesus in you.
Speaker 1:Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester, lauren Bryan and myself. Thank you to Mike Branton for being with us today and for sharing a lot of really great stuff. Thanks to Caleb as well, our director of Mix, for hanging out before what's going to be an awesome summer. We're going to be back in a couple weeks. We are winding down toward the end of our season. I think we only have two episodes left, but we will be back in a couple of weeks to talk to somebody about something, and in the meantime, you can subscribe to this show on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also reach us by email at podcast at cicom. You can also reach us on the CYY Community Facebook group, and that's all the ways you can reach us. We'll see you next time. Thank you.