Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
Bringing together influential voices from the CIY community to walk alongside you in your journey to maintain momentum between the mountaintop experiences of youth ministry.
Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
BTE4.06 Creating a Welcoming Environment for Special Needs Students 2.0 with Bekah Behnke
Mailbag questions or topic suggestions? Text us!
What happens when the environments that are supposed to nurture and protect our youth fall short for those with special needs? Join me, Brad Warren, and my insightful guest Bekah Behnke, as we dive deep into this crucial discussion. Together, we provide practical strategies for creating a safe and inclusive space within youth ministry, designed to support and celebrate students with disabilities.
Reflecting on a year of growth and change, we unpack the significant strides made in our church’s disability ministry, including the heartening rise in volunteer involvement. By sharing personal experiences and insights, we dive into the nuances of recruiting and training volunteers who truly understand the diverse needs of students with disabilities. This episode also sheds light on the impact of generational shifts in understanding disabilities, particularly in how volunteers connect with students, illustrated by the experiences of Bekah’s daughter, Millie.
Language shapes our reality, and our conversation underscores the significance of respectful and inclusive communication. We explore the importance of people-first language, while also acknowledging the diverse preferences within the disability community.
Be sure to check out the new video version of this podcast on YouTube!
If you want to connect with Bekah, you can reach her by email at bekah.behnke@cco.church. Here is the list of books recommended by Bekah:
- Disability and The Church by Lamar Hardwick
- No Disabled Souls by Jim Pierson
- Leading a Special Needs Ministry by Amy Fenton Lee
- Blessed are the Misfits by Brant Hansen
- Disability and the Way of Jesus by Bethany McKinney Fox
Want to connect with us? Here's how!
- www.ciy.com
- youtube.com/christinyouth
- @christinyouth on Instagram
- CIY Community Facebook Group
- Email us at podcast@ciy.com
My front door is unlocked. Unbelievable Aldo's going to get out. No, I just locked it, it's fine. Aldo's a bozo. He can never figure out how to get out of an unlocked door, but he can get out of a wide open door, that's for sure. I have a greyhound, did you?
Speaker 2:know this, I did know this. You've met.
Speaker 1:Aldo.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's so sweet.
Speaker 3:He hound, did you know this? I did. You've met aldo? Yes, yeah, he's so sweet.
Speaker 1:He's my favorite. Well, that's good.
Speaker 3:Your own dog should be your favorite, but I mean he's like my favorite, favorite, your favorite of all dogs you've ever had my favorite of all living things that I have ever interacted with oh like he ranks higher than you. I'm gonna be honest that's all right, I'll accept it great and pikel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think aldo's given you a Kentucky State Parks mug.
Speaker 1:He has not, yeah.
Speaker 2:Didn't think so.
Speaker 1:But he also doesn't have thumbs, so how could he even pick one up?
Speaker 3:But wouldn't it be cute if he did yeah.
Speaker 1:It'd be so cute. I love him so much.
Speaker 3:And he made you coffee in the morning.
Speaker 2:I think it would put me off if I saw a dog that had thumbs.
Speaker 1:You're like ugh. Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 3:Yeah one more time, are you?
Speaker 1:ready, uh-huh Rolling Yep Camera speed. Audio speed yeah all of the above. I don't know what all of those things mean actually that's all right, great, so there will be an intro.
Speaker 3:Great.
Speaker 1:Which I'm apparently going to do alone. Yeah, hello, I'm Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event, a youth ministry podcast presented by Christ in Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. For the first time maybe ever, on this show, I'm currently alone. I'm by myself. I feel isolated and I don't know what to say because normally I would talk to somebody but I can't talk to anybody. But I'm glad you're here, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1:We are going to do kind of an exciting episode today, uh, with my friend, becca Benke. Uh, she has been on the show before and we did an episode about a year ago where we talked about, um, how to minister with people, to to people, specifically minister to people with special needs. And, uh, on our episode with Joel earlier this season, I thought you know, since we're doing this, how to create a safe space for students, uh, who are unchurched. We should probably follow up on my conversation with Becca and get a little bit more practical about how to create a safe space for students who have disabilities, who has special needs, and I actually joked with her in that first episode that we did that. Hey, I think this should probably be a part one, and it turns out it was a part one, so this is the part two.
Speaker 1:I would highly encourage you, if you have not listened to the first episode that we did with Becca in season three, to go back and give that a quick listen. We reference it quite a bit during our conversation and you know it's probably just helpful to have as a foundation heading into our conversation today. So, because I'm by myself, no mailbag today and no banter, this is just what you get. So we're going to go ahead and jump over to my conversation with Becca. Becca Binky, welcome back. Hello, it's good to be here. Have we had a person back? I don't know if we've actually had somebody back now that I say welcome back to you.
Speaker 3:Hello, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1:Have we had a person back? I don't know if we've actually had somebody back now that I say welcome back to you I think, only I think only other staff yeah, only only like ci co-host people which, by the way, I'm co-hostless today okay, so please don't judge me, it's just me and you.
Speaker 1:We're gonna see how it goes. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna give michael permission to jump in if you have a question. Michael, for becca, we'll see. If you have things to contribute, you just pop right in. You be the co-host. It's great, you pretty much are anyway. So, um, as we were walking in, you mentioned that the last time you were on this podcast, we talked specifically about chickens we sure did.
Speaker 3:You made a big statement.
Speaker 1:I made a big statement that I have since has made me a liar.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you said I would never kill one of my chickens.
Speaker 1:I did say that.
Speaker 3:And then I proceeded to kill 12 of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the Binkies and I, we raised some meat chickens together. Mine turned out great.
Speaker 3:Ours were mediocre, mediocre they were not, and then the last family who did it there's were the saddest the tiniest chickens.
Speaker 1:All that to say, I have reached a point in my life where I'm comfortable killing game to eat it um, which is not where I thought I would be a year ago when you were on this show, I guess. So anyway, we talked about a lot last time.
Speaker 3:We did.
Speaker 1:And I actually listened back to that episode to prepare for this episode and I got so mad at myself.
Speaker 3:Why?
Speaker 1:Because I was like Brad, because I thought of a million things. I was like ask this, and then I didn't do it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Today's the day.
Speaker 1:So today's the day. But in that episode I did say this is a part one which I forgot that I had said.
Speaker 3:You surprised me, then yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like this is a part one, we're going to have a part two, and here we are, and we're going to have a great time and we're going to talk a little bit more about disability ministry.
Speaker 3:My favorite.
Speaker 1:So it's been a year. What's the last year been like in disability ministry? You learned anything has?
Speaker 3:anything changed. I feel like our church is doing it the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, other than we have this like new excitement with like young college students that are coming in. I feel like you have a bunch more volunteers.
Speaker 3:We have so many volunteers so we hired someone on staff who now coordinates volunteers so that I can focus solely on curriculum and family ministry, and so our family ministry side has like taken off, which has been amazing that I get to use most of my church hours to like check in on families and see how they're doing and walk them through a lot of the emotions that go with having a kid with a disability and so, and then faith.
Speaker 3:Who is doing our volunteer coordination has just like it's blooming and she, uh, is she a college student?
Speaker 1:she is, yep, yeah, so college student, working part-time doing this, which is incredible. Um, we I, as I was listening back to that episode, you and I had a similar thought, I think, at the same time, where it was like let's get a little bit more practical, because we did stay very um up here on that. And actually one of the questions that I wanted to talk to you about was volunteer recruitment, cause I think, um, like, if somebody wants to serve in youth group, it's like if you can pass a background check, we'll find a way for you to serve youth group. It's like, if you can pass a background check, we'll find a way for you to serve. You know what I mean? Yep, do you have to be more particular than that?
Speaker 3:yes and no okay so it really depends on the student that that volunteer will be working with or main classroom. So I had mentioned last time that we have several high school volunteers who have started serving because of a move challenge card which has been been as buddies, Yep.
Speaker 3:So which has been amazing. So they started serving in the special needs ministry because they were challenged to do that at a move and they said yes to it and have jumped in Um, but they came in very nervous because it was not something that they knew. And so they help in the classroom, um, where there's other adults who they can be like hey, what am I supposed to do here? Or they have other people that they can follow the lead. Then we have some students who are maybe in the SMCs.
Speaker 3:Our student ministry centers out in a different building where I'm not always there, there's not other adults who get it, and that can be really isolating if you don't know the world, and so I would not send someone new that's not been around disabilities into that space. So it really is like this balance of knowing the needs of the student that I would put them with and then knowing the qualifications of the volunteer. But some of our best volunteers have been people who are like I don't know why I want to do this, I've never done this before, but God's putting it on my heart, and then we're like oh, actually gonna be the best, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So you use the phrase qualifications of the volunteer. What are, like, I'm interested in, just what makes a great disability ministry volunteer?
Speaker 3:so someone who knows the world of disabilities is obviously gonna have experience of like oh, I know how to redirect the student.
Speaker 3:Naturally, so like grew up with a sibling, yeah, grew up with a sibling, maybe works in grew up with a sibling, maybe works in the school district, even if it's not in special education, but they have students with disabilities in and out of their classroom. Those are always really great volunteers and again, I think we're getting to a generation that is more familiar with disabilities because inclusion has been such a great focus in schools which is great.
Speaker 3:And so there was a time before when it was like you literally didn't have people in your classroom that had a disability, and so I think we're hitting this really sweet spot with college and high school students who they just naturally get it, and that's awesome. Even some of our students who have just had their peers in church have a disability come out of high school and they're like I really loved hanging out with them in high school and I'd like to start this over again and like do it intentionally now, Um, which is awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, aside from having been around, people with special needs are there like, and they answer this, maybe no, no, and that's fine. I'm not baiting you for anything in particular, I'm just ignorant um are there any like, uh, disposition type things that you're looking for or um, like I don't know? Is there something like just no, that's a great question.
Speaker 3:So I mean, personality is a huge thing with this. So I think last time you also mentioned that my daughter, millie, who has Down syndrome, can be very like standoffish with people. Sometimes she is sassy, she's very sassy and she has this like thing about her the harder you try to be her friend, the more she's like she's like a cat. She wants to come to you. So if you like people who are a loud personality, we have volunteers who I've tried to pair up with her, who are like oh, millie, and like are all over her, like your hands are pretty, your guts are so cute, are talking her up. She's like you're trying too hard.
Speaker 2:I would say I relate, but it does not help me be better friends with Millie.
Speaker 3:Someday you guys will be best yeah we'll get there.
Speaker 1:She gives me high fives pretty regularly now that's a big deal.
Speaker 3:It's a big deal. So personality is a big thing. Um with that and each of my kids is so different. We've even talked. We tell our volunteers sometimes like I'm gonna put you with a kid sometimes because logistically, everything about it, you two would be a great fit. You may wear the wrong colored shirt the first time you're with them and they're like oh, I hate your shirt and they're not friends with you. Or they ask you a question who's your favorite superhero?
Speaker 1:you pick the wrong one you're out, you're done, you're done okay and so it's like a lot, a lot of trial you're trying to like putting a puzzle together, but there are times when you have to be like OK, this particular buddy pairing is not correct working and it's not an indictment of and we try to do like same gender.
Speaker 3:So a guy volunteer needs to be with our male students and same, because you know we don't want to create relationships in the minds of my students that are not real, and that's happened before, so as best we can, yeah, avoid all of that. That are just not real. And that's happened before, so as best we can yeah, avoid all, just try not to do that.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, so another thing as we re-approach this conversation um, that you had said I said, becca, after listening back to that podcast what? What is something that you feel like we should be talking about? And you said something that I thought was really interesting, which was language like the language that we use when we talk about disability ministry, um, or when we're talking to or about students with disabilities or people with this I'm. I'm saying students, because this is a youth ministry podcast, but people with disabilities? Um, what did you mean by that?
Speaker 3:yeah. So language is obviously very important. How we talk about people to them or about them, shows our heart for them, and so if we don't care to educate how we speak of someone, we've really shown how little we care about what matters to them. And so, um, there's a little bit of like disagreement in the disability world now of what's appropriate speech in some way, so I'll kind of walk through some of those.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So number one, without there being any conflict in this, down syndrome is always Down syndrome, never Downs, that's never like to be shortened and also just always using people first language. So, like I have a daughter with Down syndrome, I don't have a Down syndrome daughter.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:We work with students who have Down syndrome it's not my Down syndrome student and then that applies same to autism. So people first language is what we teach, but in the autism world that's where the disagreement lies a little bit.
Speaker 3:So like autistic, so some people prefer to be called I am autistic, okay, but we teach to always say people first language. So my friend has autism, or yeah. And then, unless they're asked like specifically, you can just say I'm autistic, it's fine. But that just kind of shows we see you as your whole self and this is a piece of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:This is not your identifying thing of like and especially, especially when we're talking about our students, to maybe another staff member or volunteers are talking to you as, like the youth pastor, I'm like, hey, I have this kid in my class, he is autistic, and even that language, instead of like, oh, that autistic kid in here is whatever, thinking about the way that we say that can really change who's hearing it, being like, oh, this is not a church for people in that community.
Speaker 3:So, our speech just really matters and the tone of like we value this person and we want them. We're like asking these questions because we want them to be here, not like we're describing them and like, oh, they're really frustrating me.
Speaker 1:That autistic kid in my room is always a distraction or whatever, but like it's like, you can call him brian right?
Speaker 3:we all know who he is, and we all know he has autism and it's fine, we can move on. We don't have to keep going back to like or like. I hear a lot of deep breaths like autism.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's fine, we don't have to hide it, it's just something that we, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel like there's a lot of communities now that are just kind of like owning the language that surrounds that community in a really cool way, so like taking ownership of that and just saying, like, all right, we're people without. I am a person with autism, I'm a person with down syndrome, and this is actually something that I wanted to ask you. That may be insulting again, brad is ignorant, he's just asking questions I love it. Ask away millie your daughter does she know that she has down syndrome?
Speaker 3:oh, she knows it, she's proud okay so we actually just brought home our son, carter, who is a 14 month old, who also has down syndrome. So she has this new brother and she tells us all the time well, her new favorite thing is if I'm like telling him anything like oh, carter, buddy, it's not time to roll around, it's time to eat your bottle. She's like mom, he has down syndrome. I'm like I, I know it's not an excuse for him to not eat his bottle like she's like mom.
Speaker 3:She'll do that sometimes with school. I'll be like, okay, millie, we really have to read this one. It's your last one and you can be all done. She's like I have Down syndrome. I'm like, since when has that ever been an excuse in our home? We know.
Speaker 2:It's the same as saying I'm just a girl, but she has.
Speaker 3:Down syndrome. I have Down syndrome so she's very proud of it. She knows yeah what does?
Speaker 1:What does it mean to her? You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It makes her really special. And that's what she knows. She's like I'm special, I'm unique. I have my own set of doctors that my other siblings don't have.
Speaker 3:And she feels pretty cool about it and our kids know, I mean, this is our home and our whole community of people Autism. It's pretty amazing to me that our kids just know how to interact with people who have autism and have just like done that well and so um. But I would say I feel like the down syndrome community specifically. Most of them know that they're different. They they're facially.
Speaker 3:They have different characteristics yeah personality wise, like and let me just side note on down syndrome, the best way that you can love someone with down syndrome is to treat them their age. So I know that sometimes you have an adult who looks like a little kid and you want to be like oh, baby talk, or like yeah what are you gonna do today? Um, instead of just like what are you up to tell me about your life like they have? Yeah things and they want to be treated their actual age that's interesting, so the like my follow-up.
Speaker 1:the reason I asked you that question is I'm curious, has millie been able to articulate to you at any point? Like mom, I don't feel like I fit in in this room, like when I was at this place.
Speaker 3:Her, I'm able to pick up on what she's missing in her articulation with that.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:So even our friend group, they. There's a bunch of little kids around, they're all playing her speech. She is very, very good at her speech now. She's worked really hard on it. But there are still times, especially in chaos, chaos, when everybody else is loud that way that she's articulating is just not being heard she feels like she can't, and so she can't be heard, and then she'll tell me later like my friends aren't, aren't hearing me and so most of her hurt.
Speaker 3:And that isn't because she has down syndrome, necessarily. It's like she understands. It's something in the way she's talking, has less power or less space in everybody else's voice. And so we've had to work through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting, but I'm trying to. I mean, she is one person right.
Speaker 1:She is not the whole community, but it's like as a case study. What do, what do we learn about how to minister specifically to people with downs just by you know, kind of asking that question like what, what is, where does my daughter feel out of place and what makes her sad, and um, so I don't know. That's kind of. I mean, a lot of that applies to what you're saying At church. Talk to them like they're normal people, listen to them and yeah, no, that's really cool. So all that to say the language thing is really interesting to me, especially when you talked when, when somebody from the disability community isn't even around like the way that we talk about them actually reveals something about us.
Speaker 1:So I take it you've run into some frustrating situations where you've been having a conversation and it's like I'm happy to like.
Speaker 3:If you don't know, you don't know right. And so there's times that I'm like when I teach at ozark and I'm like you're going to ask me questions, you're not going to know the right words. I'm not going to be mad when you it's the like I don't care to learn. This Hearts. That I find very frustrating.
Speaker 1:There are people like that, oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:So but I will side note.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:The R word retard, is resurfacing and I don't understand why it's coming back. Is it really? It is okay?
Speaker 1:and and if I am going to speak on language, I feel like I have to touch on like please don't yeah there's just like no room for that in a loving, christ-centered space yeah, and so if you are someone, even if you're not talking to or about somebody that actually correct like you're being derogatory correct it is saying someone like my daughter or my friends and my students who have a disability, whatever your friend is doing that you think is so silly or so lame that you would use that word.
Speaker 3:You're putting them what you see of them as the level of my millie.
Speaker 1:Yeah like you're demeaning them.
Speaker 3:You're demeaning them to like. You're so dumb. You look like this person, and those are the people that I value the most yeah and I wish more people valued them enough to be like oh, I would never say that word yeah, that's so fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's I, I, I don't know that, I knew that. I don't know that I, you, said yes to it well is it like a very online?
Speaker 2:thing it's. It's a very online thing. But there are people who are saying it like in real life as well. Sure, it's I In my, in my experience with, with, when I've seen it, it it almost is hand in hand with people calling things gay. Like it's it's, it's very much the same, like groups of people that will say that's gay or that's retarded yeah.
Speaker 3:And they use it very flippantly yeah. Right. Which again just goes back to like our words really matter and when we care about a group of people enough, sure, to value them as a whole self and not just like this little nugget piece of them, but like you are a whole human who I value because, yeah, you have value in the image of God, and no value from your own accord or from my own accord, but from God. Right, then I would never say anything like that about you, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Ok, so we need to make sure that we're rooting that out of our own hearts if it's there. But I mean students, I mean say things you know.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:I heard an eighth grader mumble the F word to himself at church the other day and it made me laugh a lot. Um, but also I'm like, these people just hear, like they're children. They hear things and they just repeat them. So you have to be intentional about saying like no, this is a line. We don't cross this line. Here's why we don't cross this line, which is super important. Um, okay, so a, so a student. We said we were going to get super practical as student.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't think that there are a ton of churches out there who have a disability ministry like a specified disability ministry I think um almost every church would be would say like hey, we want people who have disabilities to feel at home in our faith community, which is great.
Speaker 1:So if a person with a disability specifically youth ministry context I'm going to frame it that way, um were to come to somebody's programming and maybe their mom pulls youth pastor aside and says, hey, it's so-and-so's first time here, she has autism or she has Down syndrome or whatever it may be, how would you advise the youth pastor in that situation to kind of like navigate that whole conversation?
Speaker 3:That's a great question. So if a parent pulls you aside and you have this like luxury to talk to them before the night even begins?
Speaker 3:wait, it's a luxury like most parents wouldn't do that I would say in the disability world, yes, but you will have students whose parents are kind of hoping there's just a lot of church hurt. Yeah, in this community and so I we have found that families are nervous to tell the church. Even though we have a special needs ministry, we still have families that are nervous to tell us because they don't want their kid to be pigeonholed like, oh, they're going to be put in this other room or they're going to be treated differently. So sometimes parents will just like slip them in and be like just put your headphones in, do?
Speaker 3:these things and like help and pray that that kid does just fine in the space. If you get a parent to talk to you about it luxury. The first questions you're going to ask are what accommodations would help your kid be the most successful? Using language like we want them to be successful here. We want them to leave knowing that they were welcome in this space and want to come back the next week. How do we ensure that, when they leave tonight, that they're ready to come back next week so that you can attend too, and using language like we want this whole family to be here? You all matter. How can we make that happen? Um, tell me a little bit about your kid. What are their interests? What are the things that you think tonight will be too much? Are they sensitive to light?
Speaker 1:um, whatever, asking those questions when you can huge and then what would you anticipate would be some of the more common things that a parent might say when asked that question like sensitivity to light. You mentioned light.
Speaker 3:Loud noises are two big ones, I'm sure yeah production level is always going to be the hardest for my students. Um, especially in the autism community and, honestly, in adhd, which is like skyrocketing in the number of people who have adhd. Um, that's a lot of intake to the body without a lot of output. Um, and I know everyone's like the kids are going crazy. They're bouncing up and down, whatever. If you are a sensory seeker and you're getting like the loud, noise and the visual, lights and things your body is building up to something and then all of a sudden it's like sit down, that's not probably going to go very well got it so we've built up all of this input without any way for them to let it out.
Speaker 3:So production level is something that I would suggest warning families about. If, like we do have, you know, worship, it can get loud and rowdy and we have this kind of lighting technique style, whatever you, however you want to describe it, sure, um, always having noise canceling headphones on hand is just a wise choice. Um, also, there's, like this weird thing that's happening in the video game world. There's a lot of studies about it, but that the more especially with adhd, the more kids who play, the more especially with adhd, the more kids who play violent video games, um, and then sit inside loud spaces with a lot of lights. It can recreate some of what they see on a screen and their mind doesn't know what to do with it, and so then, because of their adhd, they're almost having an out-of-body experience of like.
Speaker 3:Normally, when I experience this, I'm playing this video game, but people, real life people are bumping into me and talking and I feel more around me than what I normally feel and that really it becomes this like weird out-of-body behavioral experience. So being very aware that those things can happen when you have students whose minds and selves just work differently, and then transitions, is the other biggest thing we have really on a Wednesday night for most churches you have just as much transitions as a whole school day for a student.
Speaker 3:Packed into one little hour and if you're a church who's doing that on a Wednesday night when these kids have already been at school all day. They've had a very short break. Now it's like, okay, do it again. Up down, sit, go in and out of this room, try to make friends, socialize, but don't do it too wildly. Find the appropriate way to do it. It's a lot of regulating.
Speaker 1:Play a game sing a song listen yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so talking kids, kids through. Like here's how the flow of the night's gonna go. If you don't want to stand up and worship or you're feeling like you need to stand on the back of the room, allowing kids to move to the back of the room, or out of the room or out of the room.
Speaker 3:We try to encourage our kids to go to the back of the room as much as possible, just because we do think corporate worship is a very important thing and you can become very isolated out there and it be like my disability or my inability to regulate right now, takes me away from this like really godly, holy thing and so then that godly holy thing almost becomes unholy ground for them. Um, and so if we can say, okay, you have a space in here, it's just a little bit quieter, it's back here, or their body gets to move, I mean yeah some of my kids like dance, dance and like they're really getting it, so to say.
Speaker 3:Angel and ruthie are always back there, yep they're just, yeah, having their own party, and I love having their own, but that's gonna be what heaven looks like. Yeah, I know it's the best I love it so much.
Speaker 1:No, that's really cool. So, but aside from okay, so you mentioned, I want to circle this back to the framing of that original question, which was you. You talk to a parent. You're saying, okay, how can I help your student be successful? Is there anything else that you feel like you're going to hear this a lot as an answer? Besides making sure that they have space where, if they feel overstimulated, like there's a place for them, that kind of thing, helping them understand ahead of time what the transitions are, that's going to be helpful yep, I would say that, like listening styles are so different, okay, um, and I don't feel like parents normally tell me that, because it's almost something that they're so used to Like.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, my kids always scribbling on paper when I'm talking to them and they're like I don't even think about it, so having like little journals or little pieces of paper that kids can just like doodle on or whatever that like listening really does look so different for everyone.
Speaker 3:And to not be offended, that listening isn't like sitting and staring straight at the speaker and giving them all their attention, and I feel like that's very few people. I am that style, like. I want to like make direct eye contact with someone who's speaking. I want it to feel like we're just getting coffee, we're chatting, um, I feel like that's actually the minority.
Speaker 3:I feel like most people want to be doing something when they're listening, especially in that large of a room, so whether that is some sort of a fidget that their hands are staying busy. We have a lot of rules of like. This is to keep your hands busy and your mouth not, and so if your hand, if you start talking and you're being really like disrespectful in this space, we're going to take that away, and when you get your body back to showing me you can handle it, you can have it back um, which that takes time and relationship to be able to take away something that a kid is using as a tool to calm down, so wouldn't recommend that on like first week.
Speaker 3:Right here's the new rules, kid so, and that's like a case-by-case thing too, I'm sure correct and I would say, just speaking of like transitions and things, if you have a kid who's been there for a while and they sort of know the flow of things and maybe they're doing great, um, one of my students who, when she was in high school, like didn't need a buddy anymore, she was doing fabulously, and then they changed the whole schedule on a wednesday night and didn't tell her um, well, it actually wasn't the whole schedule. There was like, instead of doing games before they started the main speaking, they just went straight into because it was really serious. They wanted to like have this like very serious Wednesday night. It was high school, so high schoolers can handle that, but she had no warning of what was happening. So she goes in like whoa, like excited. She doesn't read the energy or the room, she's just like I know at this point of the night, this is how I'm supposed to be behaving.
Speaker 1:I know the time and the room was at a two and the room was at a two.
Speaker 3:So then she finally gets down to where they are and they're talking about like doomsday stuff. It's like darkness is real and things are happening and there's evil in the world around us and we are so thankful for Jesus no-transcript. And screams. Someone reaches over, tries to get her to sit down and she yells. Someone touched my but did not say but um, really loud. So they've built up this beautiful moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And she? It was ruined, yeah, and by not her problem.
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 3:And so we had a very lovely conversation after that night of like. I think you guys owe her an apology because you did not set her up to succeed. You knew the change. You know who she is as a person, did not set her up to succeed. You knew the change. You know who she is as a person. She was your best listener and the most engaged in what you were trying to say and create and you actively scared her and then expected her to behave calmly, like that was going to be appropriate. If you would have told me or her, we could have said this is going to happen. Do you want to stay in the room when the lights go out? Would that be too much? Do we want to sit in the back of the room so we can leave as soon as the lights go out? What do we need to do? And we would have talked through it and we would have not had to worry about any of that or the embarrassment. They didn't set her up to succeed.
Speaker 3:And that was really. I'm like I love you so much I would never go back I know I'd be like, yeah, everyone's gonna remember this forever. I go to a different church now.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that's wild. So um so transition like transitions just are hard and tell them it's easy to get, so I might be reading into this a little bit, but a lot of people in the disability community like routine that sounds correct okay so they are, especially because regulation is hard.
Speaker 3:and then where regulation is extra hard so youth group, ciy events, things that are like loud sensory, a lot of people, a lot of energy um, you're regulating is hard, so they're basically regulating on a schedule now they've learned a schedule that are like loud sensory, a lot of people, a lot of energy, you're regulating his heart, so they're basically regulating on a schedule. Now They've learned a schedule. Their body has almost created this tempo within itself for the normal programming.
Speaker 3:So when there's a change to that, then they just don't know. But honestly, like even changes, like when our church was doing Advent, we started the first little bit Communion was like people would get up and walk to the tables. Well, that's a lovely thing, unless you're in the disability community and you have a physical disability and you actively cannot do what's being asked of you, in a way that feels like I have my walker and I don't know how I'm supposed to carry this stuff to come. Like we're sitting down with this now and we all take it together. I like brought it here, or I just like my body is stiff and it took enough for me to get into this space and now I'm asked to leave when we could have just said, hey, we don't have to not do it. Like do the things.
Speaker 3:Just think enough ahead of like. These are the people that I have and I need to say to you hey, we're going to do this new communion thing. Do you want to try and walk around and I can meet you back there and carry it to you. Do you want me to just already have it up there? Do you have someone who came with you that would just grab yours? How do you want to do it? Let them decide for themselves.
Speaker 3:Or even my friends with autism who, being in a line when they weren't expecting to like, all of a sudden they're like in a line that's like slow pace and they like bump forward and they're like oh, oh, and then, like people are tapping them and like, oh, excuse me, can I come through? And, um, I had a girl who was a college student, who had some sensory needs, and during one of those nights someone like bumped into her and then was like trying to do small talk with her and she said I handle it really well. I put my hands up and said I'm not in the mood to talk right now and I said I'm glad that you feel I went great.
Speaker 3:Um, I think we can find some new approaches um and so god bless so the words are great, I'm not really like. I'm just trying to take in this moment. Would have maybe been a nicer way, hands down, less threatening, you know hands straight up.
Speaker 2:I'm not in the mood to talk right now.
Speaker 3:yeah, um, it's amazing, but you know she hands straight up. I'm not in the mood to talk right now. Yeah, it's amazing. But you know, she said what she needed to say.
Speaker 1:She said what she needed to say and like.
Speaker 3:And she felt fine about it. Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1:And I would hope that the person who is having that interaction you know that's kind of another interesting thing is, it's like how is someone going to respond and something like that happens.
Speaker 3:But you can only control what you can control you know so well, and the more that churches are used, to my my friends being there. Then it's natural, like families are just like oh well, that was weird, I wouldn't have said it like that. Okay, I'd like to move on and it's fine.
Speaker 1:Which I feel like our church is very used to that at this point.
Speaker 3:yeah, we make ourselves known yeah, we're not. We're not quietly walking around the church I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. Um, anyway, that was all like one thing and I want to circle way back. So I'm sorry, um, but back to having the luxury of talking to a parent. We got through like one possible topic of conversation which is hey, how do I set your student up to succeed, or, like you know, what would be the best environment for them to succeed in? Where does that? Is there anywhere else that conversation like needs to go so allowing families to know what services you have available.
Speaker 3:So if you do not have a special needs ministry, to just say, like we don't have a specific ministry for this kid, but it is my goal to make sure that your child is welcome here, we can put a one on one student with them.
Speaker 3:That does not need to be like from a whole ministry Like I honestly believe that if you are prayerful about this ministry and this is something that you have a heart for, like God has always just given us a volunteer when we needed it. And there's been times that we're like, ooh, we're really tight and we're like the next season is going to be fall and we're going to like boom, and all of a sudden we have like the exact amount of volunteers that we need, and so to just really trust God in that. But if you don't have extra volunteers, even like hey, you work with eighth grade boys and you have a new eighth grade boy in there, I just need you to sit near them, be a little bit more aware of them, help them regulate, because that also really helps the other boys in that group who already know that volunteer. Like I know you and you're hanging out with this kid and you're talking to him in a normal way.
Speaker 1:I'm going to mimic.
Speaker 3:They're like a third party validator almost Like I'm going to mimic how you engage with this student to do the same and so asking the family like what kind of adult, like what's the status you want that to look like? Does your child need a one-on-one full-time? Do they just need like a check-in person, um, or do they really like they can kind of advocate and fend for themselves as long as they have the appropriate tools? Um would be the other question that I would ask.
Speaker 1:So if someone answered that question and said they really need a one-on-one person with them all the time and I don't have that person right now, nope, because my personality would be like oh, we can figure this out we can make this work. When I'm thinking based on what you're saying, the best thing to do might actually be to say hey, we, we don't have that right now. Um, like, where would that go, you know?
Speaker 3:so we've had families show up who have like, given us no information about their kid.
Speaker 3:They're like just like here we are and he needs a one-on-one and we're just gonna like leave to be like we are happy to have him here tonight. I do not have the enough volunteers for this. We have asked a very set amount of volunteers to come on a wednesday night um, so he can stay. He will not have that. So our goal is for the first night to always be the most successful, because it kind of sets the tone for how that kid is going to view church. I don't feel like they're going to have a super successful time if you really think they need a one-on-one.
Speaker 3:And they don't have one and they don't have one. So we have options. We can try it and I will have someone check in a couple of times. We'll talk to a volunteer that's already serving in that space. Let them know some of his needs and we will do our very best. But that will not look like what you're picturing right now. Or he can go with you today, sit in the lobby, take it in. You're welcome to stay here for a little bit. Let him see church and then, like, leave after he's experienced it, but not really fully be like a participant of it, but more like a fly on the wall with mom or dad, which is a really safe beginning spot. If that kid's gonna have higher needs of involvement with a volunteer, um, but just being really honest and don't be like, oh, that's fine, leave them here, we'll find someone. If you don't have someone, just tell them honest and don't be like, oh, that's fine, leave them here.
Speaker 1:We'll find someone, if you don't have someone just tell them yeah, we don't.
Speaker 2:Because I could set it up for something not great down the road even, yeah, especially.
Speaker 1:I don't know I'm learning so much, but the routine piece is like if the first interaction that I have in this space is not good, it feels like it's probably going to take a minute to undo that.
Speaker 1:Yep, if the parents and the student are even committed to making that happen, right, um, it's really interesting, okay, uh, I want, I want to talk about one more thing. Great, so you talk a lot about people with disabilities being whole people and how their disability is, you know, part of their life. It's part of who they are, but not defining, like even going back to the people first, language stuff. One of my biggest questions as I listened back to our other episode that I was like brad asked, I was trying to like coach myself, my past self to ask the right questions and, alas, my past self did not.
Speaker 1:I'm curious about people with disabilities serving in the church.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 1:Do you have people in your ministry who serve in different spaces, and let's just talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yep, and let's just talk about that a little bit Yep. So two things that we wholeheartedly believe, as someone who serves people with disabilities, is one that the Holy Spirit speaks everyone's language.
Speaker 3:So, even my students who are nonverbal, or my students who may not ever be able to recite scripture or feel like they're really taking in the lesson, the Holy Spirit is speaking their language and can be, and is just as active in their life as any of the other students you're serving. So knowing the holy spirit lives in them and is actively teaching them means that they should be guided into service. So, then, we need to also then like they even.
Speaker 1:the root of that is these people definitionally have gifts and talents and abilities and it's like they deserve to be able to use those things for God, and we should Just as much as anybody else.
Speaker 3:And we should know, like the spirit is going to prompt them in certain ways and for us to be like, oh, no, no, no, that's not how we serve at this church. Or oh, we don't have, like, that's going to take a lot of work for us. We're going to have to do more serving, for you to serve.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay cool, do it. Yeah, so kingdom work is for everyone is our second thing that we believe, so oh, sorry, I kind of no, that's fine. You're fine. And so we have students who. So my same student who I just told a story about, when she was in up she used to love um writing like drawing pictures and so she would make birthday cards.
Speaker 3:We had to eventually turn it to just the male, the female students, because I think she thought every time she wrote a birthday card to a male student, she was also like asking him on a date and he didn't know it. Um, or sometimes she would stand up and like give them, present their card and then just start singing like opera style, happy birthday, and, like everyone in the youth groups, looking at this boy who's being sang to and he's, you know, not loving it.
Speaker 3:It wasn't creating the like this bond that we wanted and so, but that was the way that she served and so when we had birthdays in the youth group of that week, she would make a birthday card on wednesday night. She would give it to this girl and it created this friendship. It was a very simple, small for her to serve, but she took time out of her week. We would just say, hey, these are the birthdays, here's their names, and sometimes she's like how old are they? And she would want to know random things or like I need to know their favorite color. That's a very important thing when you're drawing art for someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, making a card for somebody Picking paper way of serving and it was beautiful.
Speaker 3:I've had students be door greeters in the SMCs and some of my kids are like the most welcoming people. They will say the weirdest facts to you when you come in. One of my boys would just like memorize facts and when someone would come in he would just start stating a fact. It wasn't even like how are you today, but that's like how he knew to socialize.
Speaker 1:He'd be like hey, have you, did you know? And he would just like stay a while. Spiders have eight eyes and it's like I did not know that.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for telling me this was great, um, but then we started having students who would learn other animal facts or things and would say like oh yeah, but did you know? You know?
Speaker 2:And so he would.
Speaker 3:he loved it, and so creating this space where our students are serving not just like, obviously, the church at large, but also really tangibly in the youth group is huge.
Speaker 3:Um, for some of my students so that looks so different and it's like asking the church do you have any papers that need folded? And we just put them in my classroom and we fold them. When they're done with their assignment, we talk about wow, you not only helped, like do the lesson today and you, like, did worship with us, you also serve today and like, look how tangible this is and we have like a stack.
Speaker 3:They can see like I folded all those papers, all of that yeah um or cutting and being okay as a church, like if the special needs ministry cuts though that these papers, they're not gonna look perfect, right, that's fine. Someone else cut them for you and served you in their with their greatest investment and like um, it's been really lovely in our room to be able to have little tasks that we can do like that and while we're doing them, pray over like which I don't hold on one second because I don't want to assume everybody who's listening to this listen to our last episode.
Speaker 1:So you guys have like the buddy system. So, um, a child, a student, anybody with a disability could go one-on-one into virtually any ministry in the church, correct, and, uh, be able to participate there. But there is also the shine room, yes, which is, if a student is going to be most successful, like in a designated space for people with disabilities, that would be the place that they would hang out correct, right.
Speaker 3:So when I say my room, I mean that we mean the shine room?
Speaker 3:okay, sorry so for some of my students who are have more needs and are just going to need things to be at a slower pace and a quieter place, to say like, okay, hey, you're in your safe space that you love at church. Now let's find a way to do this. Um, we have two of our students are going to start serving in the cafe just by wiping down tables, and we're going to be teaching them the social skills of like asking someone, hey, are you finished with that, can I take your trash? And when they say like no, I'm not finished, should not be like I'll just just wait here, Let me know when you're done.
Speaker 2:Oh, you, just let me know.
Speaker 3:I'll just be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And just standing there, but like really teaching, like long-term service, and saying like you are a whole person, who is a whole member of this church, not just like oh wow, we're so nice that we have people with disabilities here. Yeah, look at us, we're doing it, we can serve them right, but like they're actually contributing.
Speaker 1:I love, I love the story about the um, the girl writing cards to people because, you're right, it's not like I'm sure somewhere at our church there is a printed list of like volunteer opportunities, you know, and that would never appear on any any kind of lists like that.
Speaker 3:But being willing to like identify something that somebody loves or is good at and redirecting that for like a kingdom purpose is just really, really neat no, we had a student who memorized all the books of the bible in order, and so, as our way of telling everyone it was time to find their seats before programming on sunday, we would just give him the microphone and he would. Genesis Exodus.
Speaker 2:And everyone would be like time to go sit down.
Speaker 3:This is our countdown.
Speaker 1:He was the countdown and then he started getting faster because he wanted to see you better be in your seat by the time we get to Revelation, Otherwise it's going to be bad news.
Speaker 3:He learned this like funny game in his head, Like the faster I go, I want to see how far I can get. So he comes to me like I made it all the way to whatever.
Speaker 1:Book of the Bible he was so excited. Oh, that's such a sweet story. I love that so much.
Speaker 3:But there are always clever ways for people to serve. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And in some cases, like you said, the things that they want to and can do are on one of those lists and being a door greeter or whatever. But I just love that. It's like you know. We would say that it's part of the discipleship journey of every Christian to serve the church. At some point, like you, reach a point in your faith where you're using your gifts and your talents to serve other people. Right, that's also true for people with disabilities. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. Okay, what did we miss? Is there anything else we should talk about? I don't even know, michael. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I've been thinking about this during a conversation.
Speaker 2:I think so often when talking about or thinking about people with disabilities, it's so easy at least this is something that I kind of struggle with and I imagine a lot of other people struggle with it's easy to still, even in the back of your mind, have like a sort of like other sort of way of categorizing, just like thinking about people with disabilities and being like, well, that person is different than me or that person is in an other set of people than me.
Speaker 2:But just like listening to the way that you talk about people with disabilities, becca, I think it just helps to clarify so much how much people with disabilities actually sound like me and the things that I like, the things that I me and the things that I like, the things that I need and the things that I want are very much the same kinds of things that people with disabilities also want to be able to be seen and heard and to take the things that we love and care about and also get to contribute those things Like.
Speaker 2:There's things that I care about that I want to be able to serve at Christ church with, and so I just think it's it is such a good, like, healthy, helpful reminder to be able to listen to the way that you talk about them and say, no, they're just like us, like they really do just have all the same like kinds of like desires and wants and longings that we do, but they process things maybe a little bit differently than we do, or you know, have different social skills or whatever yeah, or look a little bit and their life, the way that they've engaged in the world, is so different than us, and so I think one of the things that we can gift people with in this community as a church is to say this can be one space where you don't have to do that so differently.
Speaker 3:We're like, we can understand that we're different people, but I'm going to ask you what you like and what you want to do for fun, even if it I have no concept of what we're talking about. Um, you know, hyper fixation is a big thing in the autism world, so some of my kids know so much about one thing. Yeah, and that's all I want to talk about they're like have you ever heard of minecraft?
Speaker 1:and I'm like, yes, I have. And then and that's all I want to talk about they're like have you ever heard of minecraft? And I'm like, yes, I have.
Speaker 3:And then and that's all you're going to hear about forever. Um, I have kids who fixate on dinosaurs. Titanic is a big one um I had a student who for a while had to tell me please don't say sad statistics from the titanic to new people. Um, it's kind of a downer today.
Speaker 3:So don't lead with how many people died right like please stop but to say, okay, you are really a whole person who has interests, and maybe that is a hyper fixation, but you also, like you, have made yourself an expert on that. And there is.
Speaker 3:We all, as humans, find value in the things that we are experts about or that we that matter to us and to say I'm going to step into that with you even if I know nothing about it, and to be okay to be embarrassed, um, and that, like, the social dynamics of how they interact are going to be different than us, but a big part of that is that they haven't been taught the other, because people have made them feel like this is the only way I know how to engage with you, so I'll engage with you. But if I say I'm going to pull you into this group of my friends we already are, like this is how we engage. I'm going to like, pull you into that. You may spout out something that has literally nothing to do with what we're talking about. That's fine. We're all going to keep doing what we do where we like, like, oh my gosh, I to be like, hey, listen, I literally don't want to hear about dinosaurs again today love talking to you.
Speaker 3:Love you a lot yeah I would really love to talk about anything blank yeah and um, pulling them into an actual, like real social skill, instead of again that baby and like oh, that is so interesting. Like pretend, but to just be like, I, as my own self, know how to engage with you as your own self, like I do with michael and with brad, like I know how to talk to you, and so when someone comes to me who has a disability, to be like, I'm just gonna ask you what you like, I'm gonna tell you what I like. I'm also not gonna be afraid to be like. Oh, you didn't actually ask me my name.
Speaker 2:And like to give them that skill.
Speaker 1:Like help, coach them a little bit and to not be embarrassed to do that? And to be a real friend. So when you say like they haven't been taught the other way, you mean like there are certain social skills that, because of the way that that community kind of interfaces with the world, that they just haven't.
Speaker 3:They haven't experienced it, got it, or they've watched it um more like a tv, like they've seen. The group um you'll notice this a lot in youth group of like kids who struggle socially, are kind of the watchers of the group and then when they try to engage, it almost feels like scripted um, because they've been like okay. So what I'm supposed to say is I'm supposed to maybe pick a sports team. I I actually don't know anything about this, but this is what everyone's talking about. I'm going to pick my sports team, I'm going to say something about one of the players and then everyone's going to laugh.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm just going to try it once, and then everyone's like I don't think you know what that means. Yeah, yeah yeah. And so to be able like, hey, why don't you tell something that you actually like, because sports aren't your thing, and that's fine, yeah, um, but to let them have this like conversation back and forth, that's not belittling or like, oh, okay, or like brush past it because no one knows what to do with that yeah, just be like we can.
Speaker 3:Also, you can tell students like we're done talking about that, we're gonna move on, or like, hey, when you interrupt your friends, they don't really like that. Everyone loves to hear what you have to say, but now it's not the time, that's fine. You're allowed to say that. You would say that to any other kid probably yeah but then you get nervous when it's like, oh my gosh, I can't say that to someone with autism.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're gonna be fine actually they'll probably remember it less and care less, and be thankful for like a hint of like hey, you're gonna move in this direction instead, and they're like, oh great okay, yeah, I feel like, um, maybe this is a generalization and I apologize if it is.
Speaker 1:I feel like I know a lot of people with disabilities that don't embarrass easy and just have like thick skin about that kind of stuff too.
Speaker 3:You know, like I don't know, it just seems, and maybe that's like a defense mechanism that I they feel like they kind of have to because they know that they don't fit in perfectly in every situation I think and this is again an over like this is everybody and it's not everybody, but population at large, I would say when, like thick skin as far as like helpful tools, being spoken directly like I can actually kevin has to tell me sometimes like you don't need to talk to that person so directly because I'm so need to talk to that person so directly because I'm so used to it, like that is in my friend group of people who have autism, I can just be like hey, we've been talking about the same thing forever and Kevin will be telling me about some new tool he bought whenever I'm like listen, you've been talking about this for a while.
Speaker 2:Kevin is Becca's husband.
Speaker 3:Kevin is my husband he loves to talk about tools and sometimes I'm like hey, I think we're done talking about this and he's like why are you saying?
Speaker 1:that to me, and I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 3:You were raiding the room, buddy. I thought I should tell you.
Speaker 1:Kevin also.
Speaker 3:He's fine with it. He's a talker.
Speaker 1:He's a talker. You get him going on something. You could be there for a while. He loves to chat, yeah, which is great.
Speaker 3:We love Kevin and he's used to me telling that there's also times that he's like I think you kind of shut that person down and I'm like, oh, did I?
Speaker 1:Oh, I look back and I'm like oh, maybe I did.
Speaker 3:But the people in that world are kind of always looking for tools and help, and when they see a friend who's able to say like if you had something in your teeth and I knew we were going to go and talk to other people, I would tell you hey, you got a little something in your teeth.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:That's just like a loving friend thing to do. You don't have anything in your teeth, your smile is beautiful, but that's like a loving thing we tell our friends like hey something is off today or like whatever, but we forget to treat our friends with disabilities like that.
Speaker 3:Or if like like hey, we're gonna go meet this person, whatever I like maybe would guide you in like meeting a new friend, like hey, they've been through a lot, whatever social preparations, and then we like skirt around that and get more nervous with this group of people who actually are like thriving and needing that and like willing to soak it in. However, not thick skin about like being mocked or oh yeah, feeling yeah yeah
Speaker 3:yeah I would say my friends probably have a better sense of reading emotional, like disconnect, than a lot of people. Um, because they have so much taught to them about like kids who have especially autism. I don't there's like a lot of really here focus of like point to the face that's happy, point to like facial recognition and learning emotion and empathy and that is so taught to them because sometimes it doesn't come natural that they are able to read people super well, so fast, and so then they can tell like, oh, you're being sarcastic with me.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they can't, and I'm like I, I know they kept asking questions, we walk away later. I'm like they were being really sarcastic and you weren't reading it, and so then they didn't know what to do. So that's why that conversation went so long.
Speaker 1:Next time you could just be dead. But this kind of goes back to like Millie knowing that she has a disability, correct, and it's like man, if you can help me relate to my friends, that's going to be a good thing.
Speaker 3:She knows that yep and can like internalize that and something we talked about on the last podcast was, like our goal as this ministry is not to just like babysit kids or help them like oh yeah, church is fun, but like to know how to be a church, like a churchgoer as an adult, that my job is to teach this person how to do church when there is not volunteers around to help them, how they can go into college years being a church member, and that comes from us teaching life skills and social interactions early on. So the younger, especially middle school, to be like, have the bravery to tell a student hey, we're not gonna talk like that. Or hey, you can't just walk up to someone and start a conversation in the middle of it because that's where your thought was, but you need to ask someone like you should always start a conversation with hey, man, how are you If you don't know their name start with an introduction.
Speaker 1:Cool, all right, we've been here a long time, we're going to be done great. First, though, would you encourage a youth pastor, children's pastor, who might really want to do this but feels overwhelmed by it?
Speaker 3:I mean I would say there's so many great books out um, so read all of the books. Do the research get to know?
Speaker 1:are there any in particular that you recommend?
Speaker 3:So there I would say, one really like soft start into this world is one that's called Blessed are the Misfits. It is written by a man who has autism, who didn't know until he was an adult, and it's just a lot of like how we talk about God being this, like emotional friendship being and how like he's our best friend, and to the autism community being like I don't actually even know how to relate to people, nor do I feel close to people, and I don't know how to put those two things together. So just how like common language we use on stage, how that is kind of counterintuitive to some of the people in the autism community. Um, so that's a really great one.
Speaker 1:I'm happy to send you a list of books If you can like we can do, we'll do show notes, great, so I'll send you more down there books.
Speaker 3:I would also say like I'm happy my email can be in there too. I'm always happy to help churches if they're trying to start something. I think I get like an email a week of a new church who's trying to figure out how to do this, and that is like my favorite email to get.
Speaker 1:I love it so much. Well, I'm very grateful for you, becca, I'm grateful for the ministry that you have at Christ Church and super grateful for you taking some time to help us understand this whole world. That is a beautiful, great world that we should all long to be a part of, so thanks for being here.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Super grateful to Becca for being here with us and helping educate us about something that you know I think is a little bit under-resourced, probably in the church world, and even her she referenced that a lot of people in the disability community have experienced church hurt and I probably should have pressed her a little bit on that and just asked a few follow-up questions about where that comes from and why that is and all these different things. But I mean, it kind of stands on its own a little bit that a lot of these people, for one reason or another, feel uncomfortable at church. So I am very grateful that we all have some practical tools now in our tool belt that we can use in order to create a safe space for people with disabilities not just to be and not just to exist, but to contribute and to have real relationships and friendships and to serve and to do all of the beautiful things that make us a part of the body of believers. So I'm going to read our blessing over you and we'll look forward to seeing you in a couple weeks. May God show you grace and bless you. May he make his face shine on you. May you experience the love of Christ, through whom God gives you fullness of life. May you be strengthened by his power. May Christ himself make his home in your heart. You would be full of his loving grace, and that those you serve would see Jesus in you.
Speaker 1:Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester, lauren Bryan and myself. It was such a great episode. I'm so thankful for Becca. So thank you, becca, for being here with us today. We're going to be back in a couple of weeks and I'm going to be really honest, I don't know what we're going to talk about, but we're going to talk about something that's going to be awesome, so I hope you'll subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or subscribe to our show on YouTube, so that you don't miss anything. In the meantime, you can reach out to us on the community Facebook group or by email at podcast at cicom. See you next time, thank you.