Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
Bringing together influential voices from the CIY community to walk alongside you in your journey to maintain momentum between the mountaintop experiences of youth ministry.
Beyond the Event: A Youth Ministry Podcast
BTE4.03: Scaling for Growth: Trips with Tyler Lemmel and Mikey Sackrider
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Ever wondered how to effectively scale growth in youth ministries while managing the complexities of large group trips? Tyler Lemmel from Traders Point Christian Church offers valuable advice on managing large youth group trips. He emphasizes the importance of mental health awareness, structured safety protocols, and the benefits of reallocating responsibilities within a team. By highlighting the need for proper planning and the implementation of support systems, we aim to enhance the overall experience for both youth ministers and students, ensuring a smooth and organized adventure that nurtures spiritual growth and fosters lasting connections.
We also explore this year's MOVE and MIX theme with Mikey Sackrider. Discover how the new theme "In Between," inspired by the book of Hebrews, seeks to resonate with youth questioning their faith. Insights from experts offer a stark contrast to previous programs, setting the stage for a thought-provoking journey into 2025.
Hi, I'm Brad Warren. This is Beyond the Event, a youth ministry podcast presented by Christ in Youth, where we help you maintain momentum between the mountaintops. We're back. We're back. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Okay, a couple things. One, if you don't know already, we're on video. We're on YouTube, so check us out there if you want to watch me be awkward, or just listen if you're driving. Don't watch if you're driving. That's my advice. Also, today we're starting a little mini-series about how to scale for growth. This is for everybody, whether you have five people in your ministry and you would like to see it grow to 10, or whether you have 25 and you would like to see it grow to 50, or whether you have 100 and you would like to see it grow to 500. No matter what healthy things grow and we want to have conversations that can hopefully help you gain to think about what it would look like to see that type of growth in your youth ministry. So today we're talking specifically about trips. We'll be talking about it later with a guy named Tyler Lamel. Right now I'm going to talk to my good friend, mikey Sackrider.
Speaker 2:Hey.
Speaker 1:Bradley. Hi, mikey, so good to be here. I'm really thrilled to have you.
Speaker 3:Honestly, Great introduction, by the way, oh thank you, that's so sweet.
Speaker 1:Number one most encouraging person Mikey Sackrider. That's a real thing.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 1:Here's the deal. You just got done with your first full CIY summer, first one. Yeah. What do we think? What surprised you? What you know? Like yeah how was it?
Speaker 2:man. Uh, I know it's fun. Last time I was on here was before. Obviously we're getting ready. So now it's like how is mikey doing afterwards?
Speaker 1:how are you, though? I am doing great. Thank you, I really am.
Speaker 2:It was an amazing summer. Uh, honestly, like could not have even imagined, uh, you know what it was going to be like until you do it. And then I did it, and I mean, just looking back, I am still so excited and so proud of our team. I mean just knowing all the steps that it took to accomplish what we accomplished and for students to hear the message that they heard and were the things that we look at and want to do better always Right, but looking back, we're I'm just so thrilled and excited to see what, what God did and how students heard about rest through Jesus and um man, getting to be at events, directing a couple and being an assistant director, getting to connect with some new people, new friends. It was amazing, um, so could not be more thrilled. But now we're looking into 2025, which is crazy 2025.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, let's talk about 2025 a little bit, because I know we've brought up several times on this podcast that the move cycle is like an 18-month cycle. So you guys have known what we're going to be talking about in 2025 for for a while now, and now that we're through 2024, you get to really put your foot on the gas, lean in and unpack this, this new topic, this new theme of in between in between looking at the book of hebrews, that's it so how did you land on hebrews?
Speaker 1:I'm curious about that, because it's a little bit. It is a little bit of a deep cut when you think about like theme for camp it's like nobody jumps to heap, you know what I mean. Yes, so we understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah especially as we've been exploring it, you know, and talking about it. Um, yeah, it is. It is a kind of it really is. It's not really one that we run to first. There's many others that we would usually go to first, but no, I think really, when you think about the context of Hebrews and who it was written towards and what they were going through, they were kind of on the brink of like do we quit or do we keep following Christ?
Speaker 2:You know, is this is this really worth it? Really, it's kind of the question they were asking in coming off of this past summer, finding rest in Jesus, One of the things that you know we know not only students, but myself. I've been here where you're following Jesus, You're feeling good about it. You know, you have this mountaintop moment. You, you have this mountaintop moment. You see what God can do in your life. You go back home, you grow in Christ, but there's still that moment where you either go through a trial or you kind of just go through the motions and you realize, man, is it worth it? Like, do I keep doing this or do I quit, Do I back off? And I don't know?
Speaker 2:Hebrews is such a cool stage for us to get to talk about that and say how do you strengthen your faith? So, even when there is that trial, or even when you feel like you've kind of hit a plateau, what is next for you? What does Jesus have in store for you, and what are you going to hold on to? You know, what are you going to hang on to it to find that endurance. And so one of the cool things is you know we have a resource here over at Ozark. His name's Chad Ragsdale. He's awesome.
Speaker 1:Maybe you know him His name's Chad Ragsdale.
Speaker 2:He's awesome. Maybe you know him. He has a lot to say about Hebrews and we got to meet with him and talk with him. This was early on. We first thought about Hebrews and just hearing his heart for it and hear him talking about it, it had that theme and that's how we knew all right, we're going to go for it. This is what we need to do. We feel like God's what God has in store.
Speaker 1:It's definitely like it feels very different from 2024 to me in a lot of ways which, by the way, the program was incredible as a friend, not as a co-worker.
Speaker 2:Thanks, bro, Really really loved it.
Speaker 1:So to you and all the many, many, many hands that touched that it was just really really great. So tell me what you're like. Why does this? If you get up in the morning and you're like I'm excited to go to work, I'm excited to dig into this Hebrews in between theme, what is it that you're excited about, Like what's getting you jazzed for 2025?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I think. Well, first and foremost, just getting to walk through a book of the Bible it's kind of refreshing in and of itself. You know, last year being the theme of rest was phenomenal, and getting to walk through Psalm 23, I thought was really really neat, and getting to see Jesus play that out. But there's something a little refreshing about a difference there where you're just all right, let's focus on this one book, let's focus on the audience, unpack the context of it all. That I think what's really getting me excited about it is. I think it's taking on that challenge of it being an unusual book, especially, I'm assuming, for students, and just unpacking it for them and saying you are in the same boat, Like you might not realize it, but the people who are reading Hebrews, who this is written for, like we're all in this boat and let us explain this to you and let us encourage you in it. One of the themes that we're kind of finding is this theme of like testimony right.
Speaker 2:Obviously of Hebrews 11, probably the most popular section of Hebrews, with the hall of faith.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, and just their testimony of legacy and how they followed Christ. And the author is reminding this audience of like hey, if you are trying to focus on if you want to quit or not, look back at these people who did not quit and look what happened. And I think that's going to really lead us towards some cool moments this summer, maybe even with, like, adult leaders and just their testimony to Christ. And then a student being able to say this is my testimony for Christ, and just that theme of testimony that right now is making me very excited about some of the stuff that we're going to be able to do. And it is a world I want to say that, like this whole time we've been thinking about and praying about it, the in-between is becoming like a place Like that sounds weird, but it's just.
Speaker 1:It's like this place Like the upside down.
Speaker 2:A little bit. I know that's funny because I've thought that before.
Speaker 3:Like I've had that thought of like what is the in between? Like, where is this place? It's purgatory.
Speaker 1:That's what we're preaching about. Yeah, you know, I don't think that's what purgatory is.
Speaker 2:I thought it was about time. Yeah, um, that's fantastic. We're not talking about that. Yeah, um, but. But yeah, just that idea of the in-between and it has like a lot of um, it's just so rich because you're reaching back to the old testament and you're, yeah, it's just going to be a really cool place to live. I'm very excited about it. Yeah, I'm kind of nerding out a little bit. That's great.
Speaker 1:No, I can tell by listening to talk about it that you're very passionate about it, which is awesome, um, like it. You know you wouldn't want the the move theme to feel like a chore or something that's like man, I feel like we need to talk about this, but it's kind of a slog, like the fact that you're so pumped about it makes me pumped about it too it is not a slog and we like, uh, on our last episode two weeks ago, we talked to Richie Shilladay and like this theme.
Speaker 1:You know, richie, yeah, this theme of like story you know, really really kind of rose to the top of that conversation as well. Yeah and uh, yeah, the the idea that our testimony is kind of all we got. Yeah, is.
Speaker 2:It's a big deal. Yeah, I mean, it is a very big deal. You can't mess with someone's personal right you know, experience with what, with what they're going through, what they've been through? Yeah, it really speaks a lot. I love it, yeah Well.
Speaker 1:I cannot wait for 2025. I love CYY Summers and I'm not a programmer, so it's always fun for me to.
Speaker 2:You should be one for a day.
Speaker 1:You want to do that.
Speaker 2:I program the podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're a podcast programmer, but I'm not a movie programmer. Yeah, I'll be a programmer for a day.
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Take a good day yeah, all right, um, but anyway, all that to say it's, it's, it's, uh, I get to like experience the magic of it being revealed to me, kind of which is always fun, so I'm excited to get to get to have that happen with uh, with this in between theme, so which, speaking of which, sorry, real quick I didn't say this about the difference between this summer and last summer, hopefully even by the poster that people have seen.
Speaker 2:There is a difference in just the way that this whole thing feels. It's supposed to kind of be like a breath.
Speaker 1:A breath, a fresh, a breath of fresh air yeah, um maybe not as uh which last year the poster was designed to like create tension.
Speaker 2:It was, and then this one is supposed to have a lot of like breath and yeah, it's a little more airy it was intentional. Um. So yeah, but it's gonna be. It is gonna be different, but in a really cool way.
Speaker 1:I love it so for those of you that registered for uh, for mover mix, we'll have one of those posters on their way to you real soon, I think, yeah if you don't already have one so, um, anyway, uh, mikey, would love to have you answer a couple questions from youth pastors.
Speaker 3:Time for the mailbag that's the closest mail it never, fails it makes me wanna wag my tail when it comes.
Speaker 2:I wanna well mill can we get like sued for that, or how does that work? I don't know. Okay, that's a good question. Do you think blues clues is gonna sue us? He's coming for us, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Steve, is that his name? Steve Steve Burns?
Speaker 4:well, and it's not Steve anymore well, it's not Steve anymore, but like for the three of us, it was when we were children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was Steve.
Speaker 4:Yeah there's also, just like there's, a common misconception um out there that steve burns died um.
Speaker 1:That is not true, in fact what if it's one of those, like avril lavigne conspiracy theories, where it's like he's dead and they've body doubled him?
Speaker 4:well, except that, except that he is the one that is like telling people I literally didn't die. I don't know why people think that I died.
Speaker 1:And it's not like a conspiracy thing that a person who is covering for a dead person yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4:You can find him on Instagram. His Instagram handle is Steve Burns Alive.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Steve from Blue's Clues Did you make that?
Speaker 4:up. No, I follow him on instagram. Okay, that's a real thing.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we have a question from tim gray donovan's a new one, by the way hey tim gray. Sorry, I love that guy, tim gray, uh tim uh, tim has a fun question.
Speaker 4:If you were going to get a tattoo on your forearm, what would it be and why do you wait? Do you have?
Speaker 2:tattoos. I have one where's it at? Uh bicep okay, yeah yeah, it says wake up a sleeper, oh yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's biblical oh, just so you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, the. The second part of that question is if you already have one on your forearm, what would you add to it and why? Oh, I don't have one on my forearm.
Speaker 2:If I were to get one oh man it's it would be a reference to my, my kids, my family and my kids, um, something very specific to them. I mean, their names have specific meanings, probably something like that. So, uh, olivia is my daughter, olive branch kind of from that, so probably something with that, owens like a mighty warrior, so maybe like a sword, I don't know. They could all go together. Oh yeah, totally so, something epic, it's not gonna happen but what is eliana?
Speaker 2:um. Hers is light, so I don't know how you I'm getting an idea in my mind oh hey, if you're an artist, you're listening to this. I probably won't get it tattooed, but if I ever did, you want to draw it?
Speaker 1:best artist I know is Mikey's hat cried hair.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry that I'm your.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a low standard uh, I'll just sign someone's tattoo. It's not a low standard. You are very talented.
Speaker 4:Mikey used to be on our design team.
Speaker 2:I did. I didn't do hand-drawn stuff, though, but I could.
Speaker 1:I could figure it out you could, you could act it someone got the with me wall.
Speaker 2:If you guys were at move this summer, one of our events staff he got that with me wall, like just the words on his forearm. That was pretty cool. So yeah, closest thing I can get to designing someone's tattoo. Is that right there?
Speaker 1:oh, but people do that. People get ciy tattoos all the time they do. I just met a guy who had on his forearm the like sewer. Oh, that's a new one. Yeah, that's a cool one. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, he's actually right behind you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing. Or the year of contrast, those were some pretty popular a lot of it.
Speaker 1:Which good reason. Those are, yeah, pretty sick. They're awesome yeah I love it do you have any?
Speaker 4:tattoos michael, I don't have any tattoos.
Speaker 2:I know that actually yeah, what would you get he?
Speaker 4:wouldn't? Um, actually, no, I've been thinking about it. Oh really yeah this is uh my public announcement, I guess and also your private announcement to me.
Speaker 1:I had no idea. Yeah, that's true there's.
Speaker 4:There's probably four people that I've ever talked to about this before. Now and now we're just blowing this thing wide open. Amazing, um, I've been thinking about getting a tattoo, um, straight out of rom. Romans 5 8 from the NIV. The whole verse says but God displays his own love for us in this, that while we were still sinners, christ died for us. And I'm thinking about just getting God displays his own love as just like text on my arm. I've not decided yet if that's actually what I'm going to do or if I'm even going to follow through at all, but that's what I've been thinking yet, if that's actually what I'm going to do or if I'm even going to follow through at all but, that's what I've been thinking about.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 4:I love it.
Speaker 1:Great verse.
Speaker 2:by the way, it's a great verse.
Speaker 4:It's been extremely formative for me and has helped me through a whole lot of different things. I like to change out the while we were still sinners to, while I was still fill in the blank with anything and still say you know, Christ died for us. Um and that has helped me through a lot of things, the biggest probably being low self-esteem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that dude.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you should do it. That's a good tattoo. I'm telling you, I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Comic sans I love it. Yeah, Good idea Uh thanks to brad.
Speaker 1:Did you answer the question? Uh, no, I do not have a tattoo on my forearm. I have several tattoos. If I were to get a tattoo on my forearm, I would not probably get a text of any kind. I would do, I think I would get a bird.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, there's a lot of different kinds of bird in flight.
Speaker 1:So I have a couple of like favorite birds all right, one is uh a great blue heron, okay very florida so very florida of me. The other is a sandhill crane the raptor of the south.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what that is.
Speaker 1:You can see straight through their nostrils when they're looking away from you.
Speaker 2:It's so weird. They're pretty crazy, I hate those things you know.
Speaker 1:In like minnesota they hunt them. They call them the ribeye of the sky oh yeah, florida hasn't figured that out yet they're protected in florida there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did figure it out um great blue heron.
Speaker 1:Uh, scissortail flycatcher is is one of my favorite birds. Michael took a beautiful picture of a scissortail flycatcher that I would love to have can you print that for me.
Speaker 2:I can just on his arm I no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I want to print out that picture. Yep, um, and then also northern cardinal state, bird of kentucky, yeah, and they're just beautiful, they're striking and lovely yep yep.
Speaker 4:so I don't know I'm with there, I don't know what I'd do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great question Tim.
Speaker 4:We have another question, this one from Gracie Bursak.
Speaker 1:Gracie was an event staff for the last couple of years. For the last couple of years, yeah.
Speaker 4:We're jingling all the way today this question. I think this is an interesting question. I don't know if I have an answer for this question, but I think it is very thought provoking. I am so ready. What do you know about God now that you didn't when you started this year or semester, or before the summer?
Speaker 1:Whoa what Wow.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Different than Sand Hill Korean conversation, but a good conversation. So let me understand oh my gosh, different than the Sandhill Crane conversation, but a good conversation. So let me understand this what did you not know about God?
Speaker 4:but now, a year later, you do what have you learned about God in the last year? I think there could be some flexibility to this question it's not like head knowledge but like what? Is something that, like you, hadn't internalized or reminder man, that's a beefy question. It's a beefy question I have an answer if you want to think about it.
Speaker 1:I need some time there was a line actually in the in the move director script this summer where, um, we came back out on stage after a, maybe one of the michael defazio videos or something, I don't remember okay, but we came back out on stage and the first line in the script that you had written, um, or somebody had written, is that god is not impressed by what you can do for him. Yeah, and it's like I'm a very big doer and when things break, like I want to fix them, yeah, and obviously I've known that. You know, I, I I never would have like refuted that statement and on an intellectual basis, but something about this summer in the programming and living in that world of rest for two months, um, was just really impactful for me mine is is similar meaning that it's with rest like for the summer and it's also something that Michael said in his video is walking with Jesus, working at rest, just that whole concept of working for rest.
Speaker 2:It seems so backwards, yeah, but when you really start thinking about digging into it, you're like, yeah, that's exactly what Jesus preached. You have to work at this, you have to, you have to, um, establish this walk and rhythm with him and then you will experience rest because of that, like it's a result of how you walk with him, and at first it seems so backwards. You're like, wait, wait, wait, work to rest, right, and that's, you know, obviously, the point that he was making there. But yeah, that all summer I was chewing on that and thinking about it and I hadn't really before, honestly. So that was a big, that was a big one for me. Michael DeFazio, dude throwing heaters.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'll tell you what man I mean, kind of behind the scenes like being a part of that, that project. He was a, If you know.
Speaker 3:Michael, you know that is like not as far as the nicest yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that's what I was going to say. Is he's just the real deal and just the way that he, yeah, the way that he unpacked.
Speaker 1:that was perfect, so, and he's like we're thankful for as smart as he is and as gifted of a communicator as he is to be that humble.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is like insane. Yeah, it's literally like incomprehensible to me. Yeah, and if you ever see him. I was like, if I could talk like that, if I could explain things like that, right, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And just for context, if you maybe it's a little fuzzy for you. He was in the video where with the timer at the end it was black and white. That's Michael DeFazio. We gave him a nickname this summer. You ready for this nickname?
Speaker 4:Yep wrestling name.
Speaker 2:It's official, so if you see him, please call him that.
Speaker 4:Does he know that? He does, he does know that. Yeah, it's amazing yeah.
Speaker 2:It's great.
Speaker 1:All right, well, thank you Gracie, thank you Tim, thank you Michael, thank you Mikey. Absolutely, let's go. This is going to be a good conversation that we're getting ready to have.
Speaker 2:I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Tyler's awesome. We're talking to tyler lamel. He is the next gen operations pastor at uh traders point christian church in indianapolis. So we've talked to ann wilson, who's like tyler's boss cool on this podcast before beginning to talk to tyler about how they plan for growth when it comes to their trips. Specifically, like our context would be move and mix, obviously, but um, so, like they, they brought 500 people to move this year.
Speaker 1:Mikey most of the people listening to this right now did not bring 500 people right, yeah, you know what I mean but it's like so much of, uh, these ideas and these principles can be scaled down to almost any level of youth ministry and like, if you're able to even take an idea of an idea of one of these things and put it into practice, it's, it's going to make people's lives so much easier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, yeah, that'd be a good encouragement as you listen to. This is is try to try to find the scalability for you. What does this look like in your context? Because there is so much there and I think it's just a matter of figuring out how it would work in your context whether you're taking, you know, five, 10, 100 or more. So, yeah, and getting to see, I did get to see Tyler this summer and just get to see, like, how they operated and got to get coffee with him. I mean it is, it's really impressive, really impressive. I mean the intentionality and just to the details and to their leaders, uh, it was very impressive. It was cool getting to see him in action.
Speaker 1:so, well then, let's go talk to him. Let's do it. Tyler lamelle, bestie, welcome, hey, there to be on the event. Um, this is special for me right now. This is a very sweet moment for me because Mikey and Tyler and I all went to Florida Christian College together.
Speaker 3:May it never cease. May it never cease. Did you plan this?
Speaker 1:It did in fact cease. It's gone, but we are not the spirit of it has not ceased. That's true, that's true. So, anyway, it just makes me happy that all three of us are here together now, all these years later, doing a podcast you know normal stuff. So anyway, tyler, I looked up some numbers that are kind of wild.
Speaker 3:This is going to surprise, even you.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm sure it will. So this summer you guys brought like 500 people to move.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:The number of churches that can relate to that experience. You can like count them on your fingers Okay, it's not a lot of people, okay. You can like count them on your fingers okay, it's not a lot of people, okay. Less than 10 years ago, in 2015, do you know how many people traders point christian church brought to move?
Speaker 1:no, I mean, I know how I vaguely know how many we brought, like six years ago I want you to venture a guess as to how many people you think Traders Point Christian Church brought to move in 2015.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I say 15.
Speaker 1:You're very close 22 people, okay, 22 people. So not a lot of people can relate to the 500, but a lot of people can relate to the 500, but a lot of people can relate to the 22. You are a literal expert in how to uh make sure that your trip infrastructure is growing in proportion to the number of people that that want to come uh on your events.
Speaker 1:So the people want to know, the people want to know you know, the people want to know how do we uh prepare for growth when it comes to our trips? Because you never know, looking down the pike, you might be bringing 22 people to move this coming summer. In 10 years from now, you might bring 500. So that is just a wild stat to me. What's the percentage? Can we calculate that real quick? What's the percentage growth on that?
Speaker 2:Not really a big math guy. I'll be honest with you. I'm going to. It's a lot.
Speaker 1:It's like Not me.
Speaker 2:Hold on, hold on hold on. I feel like Michael's the kind of guy that could do that in his head.
Speaker 4:I'm not, you're not, I'm very much not. All right, I also went to Bible college and did not take a math course, so I took one.
Speaker 3:I believe it is 2,200% growth, that's if that's a true thing, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:That's wild. I went to Bible college, we all went to Bible college.
Speaker 4:No one actually knows the right answer, but we're going with 2,200%, 2,273%.
Speaker 1:Which is insane, insane. Yeah, that is an absolutely wild number. So, anyway, that's crazy. Your first year bringing students to move with traders point was in 2019.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about my, my first actually year was 2020 oh well, which I? Don't know if we want to talk about rest all Rest in peace and peace.
Speaker 1:Let's not talk about that. Yeah, let's, let's skip that guy. Uh, cause nobody did move in 2020 and let's talk about 2021. What so? Um, that was you know four years ago or whatever, uh, four summers ago. We'll say what do you, uh, what do ago? We'll say what do you remember about doing that for?
Speaker 3:the first time, talk to me about 2021 move. Okay, well, I was about to have a baby, so I didn't actually even go Amazing but I planned the trip and it was a dark year, I will say. 2020 came with its own interesting circumstances, though, because we were able to host, mix at and move at, our church. Suddenly, those summer trips that had been very expensive and just a really small group of really bought in students, like all those parameters, were just gone because it was at our church and so it was was $50 and it was like bring anybody you want to bring, so the numbers like increased significantly in 2020. And that was a pretty cool thing for us, because a lot of people who had never seen a summer event got to experience it for the first time, and that, I think, launched some momentum with summer camps. Not that I would wish 2020 on anyone, but it did do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a catalyst for the future growth for you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly Um 2021, we were still Brad. Do you know how many people we brought in 2018?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I got it. I got it on the lock. Hold on, you got to riff. Tell a story, mikey.
Speaker 2:How was your summer, mikey? Tell a story. It was great. I was going to say do we want to guess? What? Do you think it was, tyler, if you were to take a guess.
Speaker 3:I think, including adults, it was under 50. Let's see how close he gets that's a fun guy.
Speaker 1:You've got to riff more, more, okay, okay, well I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't need to keep riffing, I will just keep. Keep telling the story and you can provide some context as we, as we go along. Okay, look that up. So do you have it? Are you just saying?
Speaker 1:okay, I've uh 61, 61, 61. Okay, it's fast Okay, it's fast Okay.
Speaker 3:So we took 61 people and then in 2021, we took 136.
Speaker 1:I don't even.
Speaker 3:Okay, so those are More than double. I mean more than double, yep, and we were not prepared for that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so wait, let's just lean into that a lot.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna just lean into that a lot what?
Speaker 1:is being not prepared for that look like.
Speaker 3:So we went to a venue we'd never gone to before and we just showed up and expected it to be fine.
Speaker 1:I'm guessing all of your expectations were met.
Speaker 3:I just wouldn't say that it was fine. I just wouldn't say that it was fine. We brought group leaders and nobody else. We had our youth team. We were actually at mix and move the same week, so like half of our youth staff was at mix and half of them were at move. Amazing, can't recommend that.
Speaker 2:And you were at neither Right either right and we had. Yeah, I think this version of this version of fine is like the dog who's sitting in the fire drinking coffee, saying this is fine.
Speaker 3:It's that kind of fine. Yeah, yeah, it was that kind of fine. Um, we didn't do really anything outside of just bringing group leaders for those students, and we didn't do really anything outside of just bringing group leaders for those students and we didn't even have enough. So it was like all of our staff was also leading a group except for one person. That was like they're the trip leader and then everybody else is there. I don't know where to say the breaking point is, but after a hundred you definitely can't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's actually lower than that.
Speaker 3:It's. I think it's actually lower than that. It's. Yeah, I think it's significantly lower than that, but one person leading the trip was not enough people to run the trip, right? Um, in fact, one of our uh staff members who was at mix she just like jokes that she remembers sitting in the car and calling me and crying on the way to Walmart to buy two liter sodas for like skip a meal day.
Speaker 4:It was like she just was so overwhelmed, you know.
Speaker 3:So I would just say, like people are such an important part of the whole thing and you can't. I mean that's it's obviously why we're doing. It is for the students that we're taking. But it's like you can't run a trip that's getting large like that. The same way you run a trip for 50 or 60 people. The simplicity of like I mean, if you take 60 people, it's like that's an easy group text with your leaders and it's like that's done. You kind of need a different plan for how to communicate. You need different rhythms for like meeting with people, cause you're not all staying necessarily on the same floor next to each other. Um, you know, it's like there's all these things that start to kind of come out as you dig into what a larger trip looks like. And we didn't do any of that. We just like got them registered, got their forms turned in, got them on buses off they went. That was it.
Speaker 1:So I have so many questions I want to ask how did that come back to bite you? I guess is the first question that I want to ask.
Speaker 3:So you know, if you were a youth pastor during COVID like you probably saw that students were not doing great. They were not well. I mean, if you were a person during COVID, you probably saw that people weren't doing great.
Speaker 1:I was not well.
Speaker 3:No, who was well, but students were really, I mean, having a hard time.
Speaker 3:They'd all been pent up in their houses and they had a lot of energy to get out, which came out in some exciting ways. I don't know what else to say there, but there was just a lot of behavior things that were going on. There was a lot of anxiety that we were really unprepared for. There was a lot of. There were a lot of like mental health crises going on, I would say, and we'd also done very little to equip our leaders for how to navigate the things that students were facing.
Speaker 3:So, um, yeah, there's a lot there with that. I mean, students were navigating a lot of mental health stuff and leaders had just gone through covid and like I don't mean this in any way as like shade toward adults, but yeah, younger adults we were finding were very much like wanting to be therapists in those situations and it's like there were some older adults who were kind of like yeah, right, yeah, You're not a therapist, but they were like really afraid to say, hey, I don't think I'm the right person to talk to about this, or like I want to help you.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it's two o'clock in the morning and you haven't slept in three days, but like let's just stay up till six talking and then we'll just go eat breakfast.
Speaker 3:You know where do I say stop Right, and like when is that Okay? How, what do boundaries look like? Can you have boundaries with mental health? Um, um, I just like don't even know what it's like. You're anxious, so you're feeling depressed, but like does that equal this? What? How do I have a conversation when you are experiencing suicidal thoughts? Like what do I do?
Speaker 3:We were just not prepared, yeah, and so that was like, honestly, I took some notes of things I wanted to hit on.
Speaker 3:It was like that was one of the big things up front was, we came back from that trip and it was like what are we doing to equip our leaders to navigate the different types of mental health problems that students are facing? Because, you know, on any, any trip, it's like some students end up experiencing grief because somebody has recently passed away, or like, worse, passes away while they're, you know, on the trip. Um, students are just anxious, people are anxious, um, people are depressed, um, thoughts of suicide are just like a normal thing for young people. So what? One thing that we did then to react to that was we brought in a therapist who helped create like a mental health guide for us, for students. She trained our leaders on boundaries and like when it was okay to kind of cut somebody off and you know, say why don't you give them a positive next step, like why don't you go journal about that and we'll connect tomorrow and talk?
Speaker 1:you know more about that and um, but, but uh, situationally based like you, obviously, I only say that because I wouldn't want somebody listening to this to think that you're saying, like someone who's about like having suicidal ideations, that you're telling them to go be by themselves in journal.
Speaker 3:It's like situationally based appropriate responses to certain situations, but yeah, exactly, and sometimes it's like they've gotten the whole story out and now you've heard it three more times, and so she's like she gave us tools, like once you start hearing them repeat themselves like they've said all they're going to really say, and so here's an appropriate way to redirect some of that conversation until the next morning.
Speaker 3:So she actually wrote a mental health guide for us so that when a student's experiencing a specific kind of mental health situation, there are some journaling prompts specifically to help them work through that, and then you know the next step is always to follow up the next day if it's late at night. I mean we want to give students space to process, but talking is only one way to process kind of what they're going through, and so having a real tool for leaders to use in those moments has been so valuable for our leaders and it's given them so much more um, so much more agency in those situations to and confidence, I'm sure yeah, yes just like you don't have to sit there and wonder, like am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 1:is this good, is this bad? Is this exactly?
Speaker 3:it's like yeah, I know I need to deal with this like urgent situation, and this is when I need to bring in a parent, this is when I should point them to a therapist. This is, and so having a plan for what happens in those situations was just so helpful for our leaders and was majorly missing in 2021. Right.
Speaker 1:And the reason I think this is important. First of all, I want to apologize to Mikey really quick. I didn't really prep Mikey for this conversation at at all.
Speaker 3:Um, he's here he's along for the ride. He's hanging out.
Speaker 1:No, what I want to do is give you permission to say absolutely anything that pops into your mind at any time. If you want to ask a question, ask a question. If you want to say a thing, say a thing. That's why you're here, because I super value your input. You're just so good at what you do, brad. No, don't say that.
Speaker 2:I will.
Speaker 4:Sounds like Brad does not value your input.
Speaker 1:I value all of your input, except for that input Um no, I, I just don't want you to feel like you have to sit there and just you know, part of the reason Mikey's here for those listening and watching is not that long ago you were also a youth pastor at a growing you know thriving church. Every year, it's like when it comes to trips, we're adding. It's like, oh my gosh, what do we do with all these?
Speaker 1:kids but um, the, the, the mental health pieces is, I think, an important thing for people to think about, because it's like if you bring a group of 22 people to go back to 2015, traders point, it's like you are move and mix, create environments where those types of things can come to the surface intentionally, that's a good thing, um, but if you have a group of 22, that might happen zero times or one time on a trip, and that might feel like really manageable for like whoever's the youth pastor, whoever's the trained person to just like step in and kind of be that person.
Speaker 1:But when you kind of multiply that exponentially as you get larger and larger and larger and you bring a group of 500 people and now, all of a sudden, there's dozens of these conversations happening all over campus at any one given time, that's when things can start to get like really overwhelming and and feel really unprepared. Um, so you, part of the reason I say that is because I can see somebody. You've kind of mentioned that we only brought our staff team and we only brought group leaders, yeah, and I can see a youth pastor hearing that and being like well, who else would I bring? You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And by a youth pastor, I mean me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like when I was in youth ministry.
Speaker 1:I would be like that's the people, those are the people, that's who you bring Well, I mean 2021.
Speaker 3:Us could not imagine who else we would bring either. Right clearly so what?
Speaker 1:how do you like scale for growth by in in what personnel you're trying to identify and bring on? The trip and that kind of thing absolutely so.
Speaker 3:I mean volunteers that aren't group leaders. What are those categories? Initially, safety was like our big thing and safety, like at trader's point where I work, it's safety is its own ministry, like part of, yeah, it's its own department, yeah, and there's, you know, a safety director and he oversees volunteers. Um, so he recruited volunteers to come along. That included a medical person. So if you're not bringing somebody who's medically inclined, I just can't recommend that enough, because the number of injuries and also like I don't know how to say this kindly like fake injuries that happen at camp, it's like there's, there's real injuries on summer trips, and there's also like like the, I need to have something wrong injuries.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like could you please wrap my hand four times a day.
Speaker 1:It's like well, the guy that broke his foot got a lot of attention, so yeah I just like I need a.
Speaker 3:Could I get in on that here? What about a car wheel gone wrong, you know? So just like somebody to help navigate some of that, because it's kind of hard to be a compassionate group leader in those situations sometimes, when it's like okay, you're fake injured, like right, move on right. But leaders who, you know, adults who have some more capacity to really just help with the real injuries and the real issues there.
Speaker 1:But then also like identify what's real and what's fake. You know, yeah, I was like I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, there's no swelling, no bruising.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah having bringing the safety team has been really great for us and their, their support is just so much about helping students. And so I think, if you've got a safety or security team at your church and there's people to bring along, I do think sometimes I've seen where churches bring that team and it's like all about security and that's kind of not really the vibe. You know, there are elements of that making sure students aren't sneaking out at night, like that is part of what they do, yeah, but most of what they're doing is serving students who are, you know, need sunscreen, need a band-aid need their fake hand injury wrapped, or like need to go to the hospital like it's them and a youth pastor, you know who then has the margin to take them and the group leader is still able to lead their group.
Speaker 3:So that was huge. Bringing the safety team.
Speaker 1:And then the other thing, before we move on from that, yep, I think one thing that's really important, because I think that's one of those positions that kicks in at a much lower tier like, honestly, if you're bringing 30 or 40 people to move or mix, it's like having a nurse or an EMT or somebody that even if it is one of your small group leaders.
Speaker 1:Maybe you can't afford to foot the bill for one of those people to come along with you. But conversations that we have at Move every single summer are like hey, listen, the director and the co-director in the EC at this event, we're a bunch of washed up youth pastors. We are not medical professionals. Like we can't, they'll come and they'll be like my kid broke his leg and I'm like I don't. I mean, do you want me to call an ambulance, like what you know?
Speaker 3:yeah, but.
Speaker 1:And then scale that all the way down to even like needing band-aids or ice or things like. We really are the, the, the powers that be, would not really want us even distributing those types of things yes yeah, um. So like having a nurse who can manage prescriptions and hold on to the first aid kit and help with some of those.
Speaker 3:We've got so many students on medication. You know, like we just spoke to the mental health thing. It's like so many of them are on medications to help regulate their mood. So many of them are on medication for different you know um things that they're born with. Or you know asthma it's like there's allard epi pens. It's like there's so many medications. Like we've made the decision that, like we don't want students to have medications in their rooms that's probably good yeah yep, but you know, like also, there was a day when we hadn't written that down not that long ago.
Speaker 3:It was kind of like yeah, the group leader will handle it, it's probably fine. You know, it was like very not fine. Yeah, so just having a plan for just like bare bones medication and what to do if somebody gets hurt.
Speaker 2:And one of the things I love about all that you're talking about with safety team and you know someone being there for medication and like a nurse kind of role is all you're doing is you're you're letting your group leaders really be group leaders, right, you're like you're eliminating all these concerns or anxieties for them that might get in the way of them being a group leader. Hey, just just focus on your group and build those relationships. We have people here who can help you. It was awesome. I got to actually hang out with Traders Point this past summer and just seeing how you guys did all that and the people that you brought and I get scalability. Not everyone can do that, but however you can do that now, to whatever extent that is, I think it only helps your group leaders really focus in and lean in on their students. So I think it's amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, they have so much to do, right. It's like, yeah, group leaders are parenting, right. Yeah, they're discipling. Yeah, you know this group of 10 kids or whatever, all week long.
Speaker 2:It's like they're doing so much already.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what can we do to make sure that they can do that well, so that we can take care of the other stuff?
Speaker 1:that's just like a pain, right right, okay, so you were getting ready to kind of like move on in your list there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so it's like connected to that. Then this year we brought what we called our ops team and I wish I'd brought more people, but I but it was a team of five of us. For how many people did we bring this year? I?
Speaker 1:don't know, 500. I think was your final number, yeah.
Speaker 3:I would recommend more than one per 100 people. So, whatever that is, but just to help manage the logistics prior to working at Trader's Point, I'd only ever taken a group of like 30 people anywhere, so the number of things that I just thought I could do was very inaccurate. You know, yeah, um, like I'd always been in case of an emergency, I'll just like run to the store, you know, and I'll just go get that thing or go set up that thing, and I can just go grab that and pass that out. That's really hard when your trip gets bigger.
Speaker 3:It's like, how do you pass out sailor cards? How do you like make sure that students have what they need for the response moment in the session in the evening? How do you like, what do you do when a student forgot that it was gonna be hot and they didn't bring any shorts? You know, like, are you going to make them wear sweatpants all week when it's 100 and there's no air? You know like, no, you're probably gonna go find a way for them to get shorts, but like, that's not easy when you're also taking care of 400 and some other people and so figuring out like, how do you anticipate, like what I, what I would kind of sum it all up as is anticipating the needs of students and leaders. So, like, what can you, what kind of volunteers can you bring, and things can you make part of your summer trip rhythm to anticipate those needs?
Speaker 1:yeah, whether it's like setting a caffeine for your group leaders in the mornings or like having afternoon celsius, I don't know, you know yeah um and like to my thing that we every single one of these things is just a way to like make the group lead, like everything goes back to the group leader. Like you, I don't, yes, want anybody to hear in this conversation that, like that's still the most important role right like the person who's investing in all of this is like existing in this atmosphere around those people in order to uplift them, empower them and make sure that their job is as easy as it can possibly be, which isn't that easy, right.
Speaker 3:Right, it's such a difficult job and so bringing people along to support that has just been such. It's been game changing for us because, like now, leaders, when a leader finds out that a student only brought jeans because like they can't, like they just like don't own shorts, because they only own two pairs of pants at home, like they can just text somebody and it's handled. You know they're not. Like how do I help this student? Like, do I door dash? Know I mean that's like a real thing that we've dealt with before. It's like, you know, a student literally didn't bring stuff because they couldn't afford it and they didn't have it. How do we take care of them? And group leaders then go to like the ends of the earth trying to solve these problems and they don't have to.
Speaker 3:So we've got people that are able to support on the trip and they've got a note in their phone of things to buy that day at the store and that's part of their routine is just, they go to the store, they buy stuff, they get it to those group leaders and that's that. So anticipating some of those needs it's like caffeine for leaders has been a big thing that our leaders have appreciated a lot. We realized that we had students that were like bedtime was really hard, like it was like lights are out. It was like, but I'm hungry, I got to go to the convenience store. I got to go, I got. I'm going down to the vending machine in the basement Cause I got to go, I got to have a snack. I'm not going to fall asleep without a snack, you know. So we've started like buying bedtime snacks for everybody which seems so crazy, but it's like they.
Speaker 3:It was like an extra 45 minutes of the evening was just like trying to get everybody to stop going to the vending machine.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, and we actually take away phones at bedtime, so they turn them into their group leader at bedtime and we they turn in their phone, they get a bedtime snack. So some students don't care but some are like, yeah, I'll turn in my phone for a snack you know, so I would turn in my phone for a snack and here's my charger.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can throw it out the window for snacks, yeah, uh, and then like extra supplies. Like I said, it's like the kids that forgets the students that forget stuff. We started extra supplies. Like I said, it's like the kids that forgets the students that forget stuff. We started packing some of that too, so that toothbrushes and toothbrushes, toothpaste, deodorant and sleeping bags, pillows. It's like we just have a stash of all of that that we keep in the dorms now and so those ops volunteers are able to just go get that anytime a student is like I don't have this thing, so it's been a great way to kind of help take care of group leaders in moments where they're probably just you know, exhausted and ready for bed. Like nobody ever spills a water bottle on their bed at like 2pm, it's like 2am and it's like why are you awake? Why is your bed wet? It's like I need to go to the store to buy a sleeping bag right now.
Speaker 1:Oh man, um, yeah. So I think the personnel thing is funny, cause, um, it's just something that I never would have thought about. But I can even think of stories from when I was a youth pastor and never, like we would take, I don't know, 40 or 50 kids, um, to move the like some of the things you're describing would have been absolute game changers, um, but I think money is like a hang-up for a lot of people. It's like okay, so we're scaling for growth, which means I probably need to bring a medical professional with me and maybe I'll bring one additional like right hand man or woman to help with some of these logistical things, whatever. It's like okay, that's $700, $800 just in CLA registration fees. I can't find that in my budget. Like, what is your guys approach to all of that, ben?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I want to be really honest. It's like the leadership of our church believes in CIO. Okay, so we've been. We've asked for a lot more money than we used to ask for, because students used to, when we were bringing, you know, 22 students or whatever it was like, we also charged 550 dollars per student and so in 2015 dollars.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was like we were charging.
Speaker 3:We were charging everything that that trip cost, like Trader's Point was not paying a dime for camp you know. And then as time went on, it was like, yeah, there's a little bit of expense involved with this. And then it was like, yeah, this is expensive, but it's also expensive for students and like part of our strategy as a youth ministry is going to ciy events like we believe that's going to help connect students to the mission of our church and the church like as much as anything else is going to. So because we were able, like because we identified that ciy is a huge part of our strategy as a ministry, we went to our leadership and said that it's very expensive, it's going to cost us a lot. What can we do to bring down the cost for students? That was a real conversation we had. What can we do to bring down the cost? But sometimes it's as simple as asking, like that was a.
Speaker 1:I mean, that was a real conversation we had, you know what can we do to bring down? The cost, but sometimes it's as simple as asking it's like okay, person who manages the budget, can we get some more money for this?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it was like, okay, that's a lot, but you know, I see the plan here, plan here, and then we've been so we've been really intentional about growing it through marketing and through lowering the cost and how we talk about it as a church. It's like all those things have added up to bigger and bigger events and like our leadership has continued to buy into what is happening and like they see students come back and it's like students are coming back and they're getting baptized. Students are coming back and they start serving and engaging in the life of our church. Students are coming, they're being kingdom workers. You know it's like they're doing exactly what we all pray and hope will happen.
Speaker 3:So leaders are, our leadership is seeing that and it's like, yeah, that is making the difference that we want to make in the lives of students. So we want to invest in that and I know that. You know money is just like a big thing and it is will not be that easy everywhere. So I don't want to, you know, just say it's as easy as asking sometimes, sometimes, sure, but like even being willing to just like be creative, you know yes, it's like yeah, I don't know if you're bringing a hundred people to move and you're wanting to bring you know one additional leader spot.
Speaker 1:It's like there are creative ways to figure out how, how to how to make that work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm, and the other thing that I found is like there are some adults who would go on the trip to do that and would pay for themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know like which is like every you know we all want to be able to foot the bill for that, but like that's a huge deal if you can't afford it and you have a doctor in your church who's like, yeah, I'll be the medical professional, I'll go, I'll pay for it, you know it's like, wow, the lord provide, provided in that like really unique way he absolutely.
Speaker 3:I think he definitely can, because the the kind of person it takes to be an ops person at camp. It's like nothing can be above you, you know, or you you can't be above anything else. You're, you know, everything would be beneath you if you wanted. It's like no, you're here to wash disgusting feet so, and like you know, it's just, it's a really hard, kind of gross, stressful week, but the reward is so high and what you get to create for students is just like incredible.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's one thing I'm curious about. Like, the financial piece is obviously one of one of those parts, but also another component is just recruiting in general. You know somebody's thinking about like the, the type of person or like is there like a, an audience that you go to for that medical person or for the safety team, like, is it? Am I going to? You know the group of retired, you know folks in my church and asking them to be a part of this? Is it like the safety team in my church? If we have that, am I asking those Like so how did you guys start with that? Is it asking parents Like what, what does that process like? As you got that started, who did you go to?
Speaker 3:Well, so our safety director was the one who did all the recruiting for our safety team, gotcha, I'll tell you that two of the people that have come every year since the very beginning are both older retired men, and they got conned into it year one, I think, and they got done with the week and they sent an email. Like within seven days. They'd send an email that said as soon as you know the dates for next year, let me know so we can plan our vacation. That's awesome it's amazing.
Speaker 2:That's the good stuff, you know.
Speaker 3:It's like those two guys and they've come every year. Yeah Right, like they're the best, andy and Reed, they're going to. You know they're going to be there next year, reed Reed then started coming to middle school camp and then also kids camp. So it's like he's here for move, he's here for move, he's here for mix, he's here for kids camp. Like you know, when you find somebody that realizes how God can use the things that they're good at like for a kingdom purpose, it's like that is kingdom work for those guys.
Speaker 3:So I think that that's like what I would say about recruiting is sometimes, on the youth pastor end of things, it feels like you're begging somebody to help you, but really what you're doing is you're helping connect somebody's gifts to the opportunity for kingdom work. And it's like there's tons of people out there that are passionate about discipling students and their group leaders and that's great. But like there's also a lot of people in your church that really don't want to do that. But it's like they see young people, they see what they've got to contribute and they also know the gifts that they have. And it's like, yeah, there's probably some organizational project management guru out there that would love to come be your ops support for the week who would just love nothing more than to check things off a the do list every day and there are probably medical professionals at your church that would, you know, like love the opportunity to get to connect like what they do every day with their faith. So that'd be my encouragement. I was just like look for people that already do those things and then see what you can do to connect what they're already good at to the kingdom of God, Kingdom work some would say it's almost like we've heard
Speaker 4:of this before. Yeah, I love it. That's awesome though. Yeah, no, that is cool.
Speaker 1:So we talked about a little bit. I don't know what you said, what you like, why what you just said made me think of this, but it did.
Speaker 1:We talked a little bit about, kind of the Venn diagram between group leaders and some of these support roles, and how like the support roles are designed to kind of move things off of the group leader's plate in order to like free them up to do the things that they're there to do really, really well. Um, I think there's also like a venn diagram between you and ann and some of these support staff and the other members of your staff. Um, and some of these support staff, where they can take a few things off of your plate as well, um, that free you up in some different ways. I'm wondering how that's like benefited you going back to 2021. How was the experience for you in 2021 compared to for you, tyler lamel, in like 2022 and 2023, after you made some of these changes?
Speaker 3:you didn't go in 21. Yeah, you understand what I'm saying I didn't go in 21. Well, yeah, understand what I'm saying, I didn't go in 21. Well, yeah, so I mean, even the last summer, it's like I was doing, it was me and one other person doing everything Um, so I think implementing you know, some of what I have have said we like, did with, like mental health and trips it's like that was so valuable. Is this, like this is what you're talking about, right? I mean, it's like all these changes, or are you talking?
Speaker 3:about people specifically.
Speaker 1:Well, no, all of the I think all of the changes and just like how it's. Like I want to know what I want. As for a youth pastor listening to or watching this, to see a picture of, like if I were able to make some of these changes scaled to my own context, like yeah, it could make my experience better by fill in the blank. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like a testimonial yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, a little before and after, a little before and after. Great so with mental health stuff. Like all of a sudden, leaders and students got so much more sleep. That was like game changing People are rested, which like more sleep.
Speaker 4:It's a big deal Less mentees.
Speaker 1:You know, we're just like all that's mental breakdowns, it is a mentee bee Thank you for translating. I got you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so reducing some of the level of crisis around mental health has been really valuable, yeah, and has just made such a better experience. Related to all of this is like with our safety team coming all of a sudden, we created a lot more rules and clarity around like where students were supposed to be and when, and where they weren't supposed to be and when, and so like having rules. I mean I know it sounds like so basic, but yeah, just like planning. I mean CIY has rules and that's great, but it is like a very general framework.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no drugs, and don't go in the opposite gendered rooms.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Yeah, that it's like okay, but depending on which campus.
Speaker 1:Those are great rules.
Speaker 3:They are great rules, but like also.
Speaker 1:But also don't go to Waffle House at 3 am.
Speaker 3:And like if your location is like this with off campus, you know it's like on campus, off campus, it's all the same. That Waffle House is practically on campus. It's across the street from the campus. You know some campuses you go to it's like this is the campus and if you leave it's very obvious and some are like what? That wasn't on campus, You're kidding. So I think defining what that was has been really big and helped reduce the amount of shoplifting, et cetera.
Speaker 1:For Trader's Point, that's amazing, I just pictured shoplifting at Waffle House yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, it wasn't a Waffle House, why would?
Speaker 1:we get shot if you do that. It wasn't a Waffle House. Okay, you know why would we get shot if you do that? I don't know A lot of syrup, I don't know if I'd find a national Waffle House.
Speaker 3:I don't know where all we've shoplifted from, but I you know a lot fewer conversations about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's not do incriminating things, that's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then anticipating needs has also been bedtime snacks, the extra supplies, the drinks for leaders has been just a natural touchpoint then with your adult leaders during the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're being way less like. I mean it's stressful to live in a reactive space.
Speaker 1:Yes, 24 hours a day, for five straight days or no matter what you do it will be sure, but like, the more that you're kind of the fewer things that you're going to have demanding your attention because you've already thought about them ahead of time and have systems in place to like take care of those, then the more attention you can dedicate to the things that actually need that attention and you are creating just a better mental space for yourself.
Speaker 2:You know, and I love that you mentioned that this, those rests sorry, excuse me, the rest thing, like getting more sleep, like just by doing these things. That's such a small, you know, result, but such a big deal, like leaders that have more rest and you give them caffeine in the afternoons, like that alone will do so much for them and their group. And but it's like all these small decisions that lead to these results, so you might not even think of that, create this awesome domino effect well, and if students go to bed, then you're really just right, that's.
Speaker 1:That's all there is to do students going to bed is a big deal and, and like I know that a lot of youth leaders want to stay up late and play cards and build relationships with their students during that time and and talk about things during that time.
Speaker 1:And you know, I I get that, but like you can also talk about it tomorrow afternoon during free time and everyone can get sleep and then there's a lot less crying and a lot less anxiety you know, yeah, and the heightened emotions that happen when you're exhausted, it's like, are we?
Speaker 3:we like had to be really honest with ourselves? Are we being emotionally manipulative right now? Like, yeah, we haven't slept at all and we're like trying to make have them. We're trying, you know, we're saying we're helping them make these life-changing decisions. But it's like, can you make a life-changing decision when you're that tired? Should you be, you know? And so it's like we want students to, we want their lives to be changed on a summer trip, and like we want them to be able to comprehend what they're even doing when that happens, so that they're not on some just exhausted high. Yeah, and it's like events are mountaintop experiences, but you know, god uses those all throughout scripture, so I don't think there's anything to apologize with it being that kind of experience. But we don't need to like fuel the exhaustion and like the emotional peace, right, you know, by just hanging out until three, until 3am.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to have like their own, like their own, the brain development to even, like, make a good decision about like I should probably go to bed now for my own right. They need my mental health in three days. They need to be better.
Speaker 1:If I go to bed now, yeah, yep one thing I want to talk about before we wrap up here is, um, something that I never did when I was in youth ministry or not never, but like, not to the degree that you guys do it, and I actually think it's so good.
Speaker 1:Um, and it's helped you guys scale really well, and especially in these past few years, is you just write everything down, like there are policies for everything, like you are not putting yourselves in a position where you're having to make, like, decisions on every single crisis that pops up yeah because, well, you've got this mental health guidebook, but that's just one example and like the your policy of like taking phones away and like you have all of these things in place, where I feel like a lot of people walk into trips with a pretty like laissez-faire attitude, where it's like we're going to do this and they kind of lean into the okay, no drugs and no people in opposite gender dorms and like everything else is fair game. But you guys like really really write everything down and and cement it kind of in policy form. Um, what would be your encouragement to people who, like maybe have not gotten into that practice?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's really hard to go into a week with unclear expectations and turn that around with any group of people, but a large group of people over the course of five days, yeah. So what we've been so intentional about is like what can we do to make sure everybody's on the same page at the beginning of the trip and so that's been the whole approach is just like what can we do to make sure everybody here knows what to expect? Sure, Because when you don't know what to expect, like A, that's kind of scary, yeah, For a student, a parent anybody A leader.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, scary, yeah for a student. A parent, a leader, right, yeah, yeah, an adult leader, yeah, a staff person. Like when you walk in and you're just like it's probably going to be all right, you're not really planning on it being that all right, I don't think, um, so we've just started writing down, like we wrote a code of conduct and it's like these are the actual rules and we actually make students sign them, like on check-in day, as part of you know dropping off.
Speaker 3:I understand that yeah, I'm, you know, committing to this stuff. We have a map in there and, like, in our map we've got a like a border, like you can't go. You know, we make a student book and it's like you cannot go outside of this boundary. Um, we make a schedule for students, like if, if you start to create expectations for students to be anywhere, that's not already on the ciy schedule.
Speaker 3:We this past year, made it, made our own schedule and like put it in canva with a qr code so we could just like update it as things change because stuff does change, you know. But we just had, like this live link and then we were able to change the schedule and it was like you've got to be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there, and that's like part of what they, that's part of the commitment they signed, you know which, by the way'm I'm concerned that people might listen to this and be like well, they're a church of 500 people, they have the resources to do that, but like what you just said is so easy, and like making a schedule in Canva, for what do you guys like?
Speaker 1:do you even pay for Canva, is it?
Speaker 3:like $20 a month. Month it's free for non-profit free for non-profits you just like if you take a your non-profit non-profits under 50 users, you can take your like yeah, non-profit 501c3 like certification letter and send it to canva and they will give you Canva for Teams for up to 50 people for free.
Speaker 1:So that's really huge Doing that, creating a QR code, having a schedule for your students. You could even upload a map there that has your boundary printed out on it.
Speaker 3:I mean our map this last year was from Google Maps.
Speaker 1:It was Google.
Speaker 3:Maps and markup on my phone.
Speaker 1:It's not fancy these things are so practical for so many people yeah.
Speaker 3:That's amazing. Students just need to know what to expect and leaders need to know what to expect. So outlining all those things has just been so helpful and I would definitely encourage you as you think about the trip. Just like, go through check-in day Once you get students in your vans or on a bus, or on buses, like what, what are you doing for lunch? And if you are bringing a larger group, it's like I've talked to other youth pastors and it's like they pick an exit and it's like here's a few restaurants at this interstate exit, you know, and if that's your approach, it's like should you call some of those restaurants ahead of time and give them an ETA?
Speaker 3:You know, like are you bringing enough people? That that's going to stress out a restaurant. Or like what one decision we've made is like to, you know, stop somewhere planned and like cater food. So you know it's like there's so many ways to do all of that, but it's's like what can you anticipate about every moment? Yeah and I think that's what it comes down to, because a lot of people know.
Speaker 1:It's like they know, because they do it every year. It's like we pull a charter bus into the chick-fil-a parking lot and it takes forever for everybody to get their food and it's like, well, that doesn't have to be the way that it is. You know, know, right, just like being creative about how do we like address these problems and, like you guys, cater food for your group. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm just curious, as you talk about this, like before you guys leave for your trip, what does it look like as far as getting parents and students? You guys have like meetings. It's like a camp meeting. You have a separate meeting for your safety team. Like guys have like meetings is like a camp meeting, you have a separate meeting for your safety team. Like how does that all work out to make sure that everyone's prepared?
Speaker 3:uh, before you guys leave. Um, we've done a lot of things and I don't know that they're all the right things, so, uh, but I can say what we've done and what we've learned. Um, we've done several years of leader trainings where it's all together for mixed leaders and move leaders all in the same room kind of, and there is something to like the vision of what happens at trips. That's the same, but there's also so much that's different because it's so schedule dependent that, you know, depending on the size of the groups you're bringing to, each trip may or may not recommend it that way. You know, we break up and go through schedules. So this next year we'll probably do two separate nights. You know, do whatever you want with that. That's just for leaders. That's just for leaders.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, we've done a lot with email communication to parents, just like a really quick video, and then, like we attach the code of conduct that students are agreeing to by coming to the camp or by coming to the, you know, on the trip, we um, just like the packing list is on our web page. You know, it's like we've done everything we can to like get everything on the web page and then everything in parent communication we have have never done, at least as long as I've been here. We've never done a parent meeting, and I do think there's something to that. If you've ever hosted one and want to reach out, my email is just the email youth at tpccorg. I would love to find out more about what you do in your parent meetings with you know everybody, because I'm not sure what that looks like yet, but we've kind of identified that that is something that we probably should be doing. Um, just what does that look like exactly?
Speaker 1:I don't know I mean, that's part of the thing that I love about your disposition, though, is and I don't mean you as entitled ml, even though I do mean you as entitled ml, I mean trader's point as well is it's like we're learning. You know, we're figuring it out. We've had to try stuff, we've had to fail at stuff, we've had to, and we're still figuring out.
Speaker 1:We still like we're gonna bring more people next year than we brought this year, and that presents new challenges that we are all learning about together and trying to figure out together. Yeah, I.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's just the reality of something like this. It's like you've got one group of students that you're doing this one thing with one time and you're going to do it and things are going to come up and it's like there might be things that come up in 2025 that never happen again.
Speaker 3:There might be, but there will be, yeah, but also there might be things that come up in 2025 that, like you're going to see again the next year and the year after that, and some of that might just come with growth and some of it's like cultural changes. But I would say, like, as things grow, if your weeks are growing, I would just anticipate that there's going to be more and more students who are joining you, who aren't like on mission with you, and so that brings new dynamics right of like how parents do or don't trust you, how they do or don't trust you and how they interact with you, and like the things that some students are experiencing at home. It's like what they're being thrust into is like so different that you've got to there's a lot of like gray area, trying to figure out like, why is a student responding to something this way? You know, are they like wandering off? Because they're like just truly, they're so used to being on their own that this is like disorienting. So there's just some of that, that there's a lot of gray area in it, but it's like what can you do to anticipate what's going to happen? And then, every year, it's just learning from it.
Speaker 3:Everything we've done is because we've learned something specifically like from something specifically going wrong, or talking to other churches and finding things that they're doing really really well and then adapting them. Everything I've said is we've learned so much from so many other churches and so I don't say any of this. We've got it figured out. There is still so much more for us to learn and so many other churches, and so I don't say any of this. Like we've got it figured out, like there is still so much more for us to learn, and there's so many churches that are doing really really great things with their weeks of CIY, and so learning from other churches about what they're doing it's just been so cool and it's so fun to see, you know, the kingdom of God and what's happening all across the country with all of this and um, kind of contextualizing that too for me for a trader's point like uh, what's happening here and how we can use those ideas to make it better.
Speaker 1:So it's a better experience for everybody yeah, well, um, you've given us a lot to chew on. Appreciate you, uh, taking the time, tyler, we gotta wrap things up here, but, uh, I do, I just really love.
Speaker 1:Well, I love you, my friend, and love your heart towards this like thing that um not a lot of people who are, uh, predisposed to youth ministry like to spend a ton of time thinking about, like the logistics, the ins and outs, but uh, you've given us a good jumping off point to to kind of think through those things.
Speaker 2:So thanks for your time, tyler. Thanks for what you do man. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks for what you do, man.
Speaker 1:Thanks for hanging out, mikey. I'll tell you what I loved about that conversation. Please tell me that it was with you and Tyler, and we've been friends for so long. Oh man, I know.
Speaker 2:But also it was just good stuff, you know.
Speaker 1:It really was, but also it was just good stuff. You know, uh, like, I hope that youth pastors will have a chance to just kind of sit on that, because here's the thing, everything that tyler said. You come from a big church. You know this. Like you have to take it and contextualize it in some really interesting ways, but the philosophy of behind what he said is all really good, you know yeah, absolutely the scalability of it, yeah, is there for sure?
Speaker 1:like we're talking about, like some of that you can do if you're bringing a group of 40 and then it obviously scales up all the way until you're bringing a group of 500 or whatever it is that right the trader's point brings. But um, what was one, what was one? Uh, let's do this really quick. I'm going to put you on the spot.
Speaker 3:Please do For Raider Youth.
Speaker 1:Ministry.
Speaker 2:Days.
Speaker 1:One trip hack from Mikey Sackrider was one thing that you guys did. That was like this was incredible. This was unbelievable.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this is really a hack. I feel like this one's kind of obvious. We talked about it a little bit. I mean, we just absolutely took care of our leaders. Like we really made that a huge part of our day. Yeah, made sure that they knew what they were doing. We would do, because we go to Lee University every year.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Lee Lovely.
Speaker 2:And they have a Dunkin' Donuts on campus. So there were not every morning, but there were a couple mornings where we felt like our leaders really needed it. We just say, hey, go to Dunkin' and we're going to buy you coffee because we just are so glad that you're here and we're thankful for what you do and we want to make sure you have caffeine, and so that's just like one way of many that we just wanted to make sure that they, that they felt like they were championed, that we believed in them and that we were so thankful for them giving up their week to be there. So, and it made all the difference. I mean, they were excited, they looked forward to going back the next year and, um, it translated into our sunday night programming too, just having them, and so I don't know if that's as much a hack, as it is just like a cultural, cultural thing, like for your church, like your culture and how you treat your leaders and stuff.
Speaker 1:But yeah, no, totally. I think that culture is important to instill and even worth um. I personally am of the opinion that, like it's worth it to invest financially in that as much as you can, right, even if you have to sacrifice in other areas in order to make that happen. Like that culture of taking care of the people who are taking care of your students is a really big deal. Youth pastors know that.
Speaker 3:They are the best.
Speaker 1:We love you guys. Because we love you, I'm going to have Mikey go ahead and close us out by reading our blessing for you.
Speaker 2:Yep, May God show you grace and bless you. May he make his face shine on you. May you experience the love of Christ, through whom God gives you fullness of life. May you be strengthened by his power. May Christ himself make his home in your heart that you would be full of his love and grace. Himself make his home in your heart that you would be full of his love and grace and that those you serve would see Jesus in you.
Speaker 1:Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester, lauren Bryan and me. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe to our show on the YouTubes or wherever you listen to podcasts. We will be back in a couple weeks to continue this series about scaling for growth. We're going to talk about everybody's favorite thing your budget and it's going to be so fun. So if you don't want to miss that, make sure you subscribe. In the meantime, you can reach out to us on the ci community facebook group or by email at podcast at cicom. We will see you next time, thank you.